Jae Kim MD Surgeon

Dr. Jae Kim x Beauty and the Biz 8.16.24 – Transcript
(0:00 – 0:13)
The answer is I don’t know. Yeah, but we figured it out. All right.
Okay. Okay. So you go ahead and be, I can even, you know, I could share my, you could
share your screen and I think.
(0:14 – 0:25)
No, I would still have to record it myself from over here. It’s okay. I’ll record now on
Nicole will she downloads all of this and when she downloads, I’ll have her shoot it over
to you and you can do it.
(0:25 – 1:52)
Okay. Okay. Great.
All right. So we are recording. Okay.
All right. So, okay. So as you know, the podcast is about your beautiful, you were unique,
you’re worth it.
And I really loved the time that we had to talk on your show about more of how I’ve
come along in my practice. And so this is my opportunity to, to have you on to share kind
of your experience through the 20 plus years of your being in this field of plastic surgery
and aesthetic medicine. So in terms of any salient points that you wanted to feature.
Were there any in particular? Who, who basically is the audience here. So the audience
is you is, is the person who wants to impact the world by achieving a more beautiful
version of themselves. The, it can be anyone, it can be anyone who has an interest in the
services that we’re familiar with and we provide, or it can be someone who is just
dipping their toe in kind of maybe disenchanted with their self perception of beauty.
(1:52 – 2:10)
And we know that the right patient needs to have that foundation in terms of, Hey, I’m
beautiful and I want to be a more beautiful version of me as opposed to I’m a lost cause.
And I want to just go into some random office and get a one off treatment. Right.
(2:11 – 2:32)
Well, I can tell you my journey and it’s probably similar to other people’s most of us,
especially women, have trouble with our parents, you know, there’s always going to be
something that we’re not happy with. And that ranges from, I’m not loving this to, I don’t
think I can live another year looking like this kind of thing. So it’s a huge range.
(2:32 – 2:58)
It also changes as the world changes. There’s a chance you were just fine with your looks
until somebody said something, or you saw something on social media, or you saw a
celebrity. And that the way things are happening in today’s world, we are so inundated
with information from all sorts of other people who tell us how we should look feel active.
(2:58 – 3:12)
You know, exercise never ends. So you have to really get grounded with yourself. And to
think, is this really what the problem is, because here’s what I do know after just being
around on the planet for so long.
(3:12 – 3:27)
Oftentimes we think it’s this problem. If I fix this problem, all will be well. And I guarantee
you, if there’s something you’re not happy with externally, typically there’s also
something internally that’s also triggering that.
(3:27 – 3:38)
So you can fix it all you want, but you’ll find out, oh, that wasn’t it. You know, I mean, it
helped for a minute. But now that I’m using this look now, I’m telling you, we women, we
go to the next thing.
(3:38 – 3:45)
It’s just like renovating your home. You want it in your kitchen. And now you look around
and say, Oh, dear God, the bathroom looks terrible.
(3:45 – 4:30)
And now you end up renovating the house kind of thing. So you really have to have your
wits about you. And then you have to go find somebody to help you fix this
uncomfortable.
And that’s a whole other world of going up and down on, you know, plastic surgery, like a
rhinoplasty patient, the emotional stages they go through is insane. And I’ve been
through it several times myself. At first you’re just not pressure like pondering.
Hmm, maybe I should do something about this. And then you maybe start researching
online, you start looking around. And then you see what others are saying.
And then you see what their journey was like. And we all love the photos. Love, love,
love the photos on the internet.
(4:31 – 5:10)
The problem is they’re always transformational photos. Everyone’s showing like their
killer results, you know, like, I mean, like some, some of these patients are looking at
that and saying, Oh my God, I could be like celebrity looking, you know, I mean, I could
change my whole world. And we just want to set expectations.
And then you decide to do it and you’re excited. And then you’re scared because
someone’s going to rearrange your, you know, your body and you’re like, Oh, dear,
should I really do this? And because the last thing you want is to regret it. And then
you’re kind of excited again, then you’re scared again, then you have it done, then
you’re miserable because you look ridiculous and you’re, you know, you’re not in your
right place.
(5:10 – 5:29)
You’re your brews, you’re swollen, you look like a train wreck. And then you’re regretting
it going, I can’t believe I did this. I’m going to, I hate this doctor.
I hate this. I hate everybody. And then you start seeing the results.
And then you’re back up the hill again going, Oh my God, this is amazing. And then you
get used to it. And then you go on to the next body part.
(5:32 – 5:47)
That’s, that’s something I saw. Actually, you know what, I think a lot of those, let me just
do a clap kind of thing. So I, this is kind of talking to my producers as well as you kind of
at the same time.
(5:47 – 6:01)
And a lot of the nuggets there. I think we’re like really, really good for the intro part. And
then I think my production team, they can put snippets of that back into the body of the
episode too.
(6:02 – 6:33)
But I did want to, I didn’t want to stop you, but I, but I, at some point I do want to record
the intro spiel before we get any deeper into all the juicy stuff that we’re going to talk
about. Yeah. Okay.
I’m doing it. Okay. Thank you.
So, all right. All right. All right.
All right. So I’m going to, this is, this is my usual intro. And then I’m going to introduce
you.
And of course, the thank you for having me kind of think. Okay. Sure.
(6:33 – 6:47)
So welcome to the your beautiful podcast with J Kim MD. I’m your host, Dr. J Kim, a
double board certified facial plastic surgeon. I’m on a mission to make the world a more
beautiful place starting with you.
(6:48 – 6:56)
There are three undeniable truths that you must embrace. The first is that you are
beautiful. The second is that you are unique.
(6:57 – 7:07)
And the third is that you are worth it. Let’s dive into today’s episode. I’m very excited
today to have a wonderful guest.
(7:08 – 7:27)
She is a coach, an author, an entrepreneur, a beautiful woman in every way. And we
have been partners in this aesthetic industry for a while now. Her name is Catherine
Mayley, and she is a wonderful resource for all things related to plastic surgery and
aesthetic medicine.
(7:27 – 7:46)
So without further ado, I want to welcome Catherine to the show. Welcome. And I’m
really, really glad to have you.
And I’m so excited to have this conversation. Thanks so much for having me. I’m not
used to a podcast run by a doctor.
So this is great. I’m usually the podcaster interviewing the doctors and this is the other
way around. I’m excited.
(7:46 – 8:19)
Right. Yeah. And so I’ve seen some of your podcast.
You really talked to a great audience in terms of perspective patients, but the guests you
have on are some of the most well renowned colleagues in our industry. They’ve been
through a lot of ups and downs in terms of running our offices, things like that. So I’m
sure you have a lot of stories to tell, but we were just talking before about the patient’s
emotional journey.
(8:20 – 9:42)
And one of the, and just along the core tenets that I have in terms of the patients that I
want to help achieve a more beautiful version of themselves is that you are beautiful.
You’re unique and you’re worth it. And so in terms of you are beautiful.
And I think you spoke to a lot of what that means in terms of the journey. You know, can
you highlight some things about that you’ve seen over the years in terms of the patient
experience and also of the plastic surgeon or aesthetic professional guiding patients
through that journey. Sure.
I don’t even know where to begin, other than like, let’s just start with the emotional side,
because a lot of patients, the reason we’re looking for plastic surgery, typically, because
I wrote the book on it, actually, I have a book behind me called your aesthetic practice,
what your patients are saying. And I interviewed patients and I asked them, number one,
like, what, what pain were you in? Like, what was, what solution were you looking for to
the pain you were in? And typically, consumers, especially cosmetic patients and doctors
need to know this, they’ll give you their peripheral reason. I have a wedding coming up.
I’m off for the summer. I’ve always wanted to get a rhino. I have some kind of an event
coming up, but it’s very pragmatic.
(9:43 – 10:02)
They never tell you, or they don’t normally tell you, I feel like crap about myself and I
want to fix this. I have always felt bad about myself or my appearance and it’s time to
make a change. There’s so much emotion under what they normally just tell you
pragmatically that you don’t want to miss that.
(10:02 – 11:13)
You have a patient that’s standing in front of you saying, I’m feeling insecure. I feel
vulnerable. I’m not sure who can help me.
I don’t know who to trust. I don’t know if this is the right thing to do. Am I going to regret
it or am I going to love it? Is it going to change my life completely? Like, there’s so much
going on internally that the doctors got a really, that’s why I say please spend more time
talking with the patient and asking questions and find out someone’s got a bond with
this patient.
They have to tell you what they’re thinking and feeling for them to get to a yes.
Absolutely. Yeah, there’s so much good stuff right there in terms of, yeah, it’s not just a
physical recovery journey.
It’s very much an emotional journey. And I really do think that people who are in a
healthier emotional space, whether it’s them their self belief or the and or the support
system around you, the messages that you’re getting from that network. And I do and I
really do think that the more positive that is the healthier that is better outcomes.
(11:14 – 11:30)
Well, it’s so funny if you talk to your family, the people who love you the most, they’ll
say, oh, you don’t need surgery. What are you talking about? You look beautiful. And
then they have the outside world talking at them via Instagram or social media or
whatever, saying, no, you’re not where you need to be yet.
(11:31 – 11:59)
I would say, please go within for the answer. Do not look at the outside world. You decide
for you.
What makes the most sense for you? There’s a fine line there because you can plastic
surgery can become a very addictive thing to do because it’s a quick fix. It’s easier to fix
your nose than it is to fix your mindset, quite frankly. And I would spend a lot of time on
mindset, soul, and then your appearance.
(12:00 – 12:13)
Just do it for the right reasons. And the way I look at it, a lot of people say, this is so
frivolous. Why would anybody want plastic surgery? And I say, you know what? Same
reason.
I upgrade my car. I upgrade my house. I upgrade my clothes.
(12:13 – 12:53)
I mean, we all get older and we break down or we were born with something less than
what we wanted, you know, and there’s all sorts of trends going on and there’s a lot of
external stimuli affecting you, but right, but don’t listen to all of that. I’m interested in
going through life like this for one more minute. And we women, especially in the book, I
asked them, how long had you thought about it? They’ll think about it for years and
years and years.
(12:54 – 13:18)
And you think, and what did they always say to you? Gosh, I wish I had done this sooner.
They always say that the normal people who are not using plastic surgery to fix their
relationship to get, you know, when they’re suddenly single. Like, we have to be careful
with that group because I don’t know if they have the right reasons for this, but the
people have been looking in the mirror forever, just disappointed saying, gosh, I wish I
just wish we could tweak this one little thing.
(13:19 – 13:33)
That’s the right patient for you. Right. You touched on a really important topic and it’s
that there are so many areas of information, especially with everything being on the
internet now.
(13:33 – 13:43)
You know, all of us plastic surgeons and aesthetic offices, we have to be online. We have
to be present. We have to interact.
(13:44 – 14:09)
And the patient consumer, the prospective patient consumer is exposed to all of this.
And there’s so many rabbit holes that they could potentially go down. So in terms of
social media, kind of what changes have you seen in terms of the patient’s approach to
research and finding a plastic surgeon.
(14:10 – 14:25)
Well, it’s like anything else. It’s a double edged sword. You can be the, the mediocre
surgeon and excellent on Instagram and win over a very qualified skilled experience
surgeon who can’t figure this out.
(14:25 – 14:45)
You know, not everybody. Not everyone can be on video or not everybody wants to be
in. And I know so many surgeons and I won’t even say it’s by age.
It’s by mindset. So many surgeons are some of them love this stuff. Like they’re in their
60s going, this is great.
I love doing this. And they really get it. And they really know how to connect with the
audience.
(14:46 – 15:12)
And then that’s how it grows. But other surgeons are so good. They just aren’t into this.
And you’ve got to figure that out because today’s patient. What do we do? We honestly,
we first usually go to social media before we get to your website, you know, or I mean,
it’s almost getting to be a miracle to find your website due to all the things going on
technically. But even if they like, let’s say a girlfriend mentions you.
I’m the first thing I do. I do like everybody else. I go to Instagram and check you out.
(15:12 – 15:58)
I also will Google your name and reviews because I want to see not just what you’re
saying about you, but I want to see what everyone else is saying about you. And boy, it
is telling when you go online and put in a doctor’s name, I’ll go John Smith, MD surgeon
reviews. And that’ll come up.
And sometimes I just put in the name and crazy things come up. Things that had
happened to them many years ago is still popping up now or or the reviews are fantastic.
They look good online.
They have updated photos. You all have to keep updating your photos, by the way. We
all do.
Because you can’t look 40 when you’re now 60 and the patient meets you. There’s a real
big disconnect there. It feels very dishonest.
(15:59 – 16:17)
But really look at your online presence like a consumer would not like your ego would
look at what a consumer think about being a cosmetic consumer dear Lord. Half the time
you think you want one thing, then you go online and it turns out, Oh, well, maybe I don’t
actually want that. I want this other procedure.
(16:17 – 16:48)
So you’re still trying to figure out what procedure you want. Then you have to figure out
who’s the service provider that best can meet that need. And then how did it go? You
know, like, there’s so many steps for a surgeon and a patient getting together.
It’s, it’s, it’s a maze. It’s an absolute maze and it can change in a, on a dime because
emotions are involved. So with the patient feels confused or frustrated or disappointed,
they just go the other way because there’s so much choice.
(16:49 – 17:24)
Yeah, that’s so true. And it’s not even just a, it’s not even based on physical location
because people will travel for these things now. Around the world.
Yeah. I’m in the DC metro area and we have rhinoplasty or facelift or eyelid surgery
leads and people will research for a while. And, you know, my team will get back in touch
with them a little while later after their initial contact and they’ll say, Oh, I’m going to
Turkey for my rhinoplasty.
(17:24 – 18:12)
Or I’m going to Korea for my rhinoplasty. Things like that. And I guess that, like you said,
it’s a double edged sword.
There’s so much information. And since the, and since the consumer, while looking at all
this information feels different emotions and that can be different in a given day, any
time, any given chapter of life. So there’s so many factors.
Like you said, it’s, it’s quite interesting now. Well, here I’m in California and I work with a
lot of practices all over the world. But one thing that keeps coming up now with all the
immigration is, especially like Texas and Arizona, they have so many patients who say to
them, Oh, I’m just going to go to Mexico and get this done, you know, for a third of the
price or eight.
(18:12 – 18:55)
And all I can say is seriously think about that. We’ve all seen the show botched. We’ve all
seen when it goes wrong.
You may not, maybe it’s only one in a hundred, but do you want to be the one in a
hundred? You know, I just it’s your own body and I price is never the whole, or let me say
this, price should never be the sole variable for you deciding what to do. I mean, look at
the foreign after photos. And frankly, everyone has a horror story about, you know, and
out of the country, by the way, this is so random, but a million years ago when I was
young, I was in love and I moved to Istanbul, Turkey for a man.
(18:55 – 19:45)
I mean, it was silly. It was, I’m so glad I did it, but it was the silliest, you know, when
you’re young, crazy what you’ll do. So I lived there for a year.
I will tell you, and this was a long, long time ago, like 20, 30 years ago, I will tell you, I
went to the dentist there. And, and I, and he said, okay, I’m all done. I said, what do you
mean? You didn’t do anything.
Like, it was shocking. The difference in caliber, you know, in level of expertise of it, of
standards of, I mean, I, I thought, holy cow, like you really do get what you pay for. And
in certain, like, there’s a reason America is the top dog, you know, I would just, I would
just really think about that because it’s not, it’s not something that you can change
lightly if something goes wrong.
(19:45 – 20:32)
Absolutely. I have another video on YouTube about, should you travel for plastic surgery?
And if you watch till the end, there are some general guidelines if you wanted to go
abroad for where you should go abroad for which particular procedure. But you’re right.
As a blanket statement, you definitely want to do your research regardless of where you
go for your plastic surgery or aesthetic procedure. So one thing that I saw in a recent
video of yours was talking about a ladder. And so at the bottom of the ladder, we have
kind of the waiting pool procedures as I like to call them where you go in the shallow
end.
(20:32 – 20:48)
And you might do the esthetician services, like a derma planing with the
microdermabrasion. And then at the top of the ladder, it’s surgery. So tell us a bit about,
you know, how the patient journey goes through that ladder.
(20:49 – 22:32)
A cosmetic patient, a true cosmetic patient, and I am one. I started on
microdermabrasion. So I was at the bottom of the ladder.
I was getting into my older 30s and I wanted to do something in med spot. Like we had
the first meds bond, San Francisco pop up. And I went there for my microdermabrasion
and she sold me a package.
She was way before her time. And I was getting that done. And I thought, Oh, is that
nice.
And then, you know, now here come the wrinkles. And then my dermatologist was Kathy
Fields, who was one of the Stanford dermatologists who invented proactive acne cream.
And she was my derm.
And she was doing my Botoxen filler. I used to call it my my face fund. I was that so let’s
say I’m later 40s.
I was paying 5000 a year on my face fund. I was going in quarterly for my Botoxen filler.
But in those days, it was only collagen filler.
So you didn’t have the, you didn’t have any of the choice you have now. And she had the
first IPL machines, which was as big as the office room. It was huge.
Yeah. And it hurt like a mother. Because I was really good guinea pig for them because
I’m really good with lasers.
And it was like, because I have so many freckles and spots and I loved it. And I was just
hooked on. I always wanted to look good, not crazy.
I just wanted to, first I wanted to have more than I had. And then I wanted to tweak what
I would I naturally had. And then I wanted to hang on to what I had.
You know, those are the different stages. You want to add to, then you want to subtract
from, then you want to hold hold hold the line. And it’s amazing how you’ll go up and
down that ladder for decades.
(22:33 – 23:28)
I went microdermabrasion Botox filler, IPL lasers. Then I was bumping up. I did a rhino.
I did light bow. And in between those times I still go up and down. And then several
years, I would bump up to another surgical and then come back down.
And I was so surprised that surgeons didn’t think that way. That’s how I got into this
industry. To them, it was a one and done, one and done, one and done.
And I thought, Are you kidding me? Do you know how much money I’ve been worth? A
million of you because nobody will nurture me. The relationship, as a busy professional
who has money, has a credit card, I’m looking for time and convenience. If you can help
me with my problems, I would love to have one office be my solo umbrella of everything
I need.
(23:28 – 24:51)
You know my name, you know my credit card, you know my wants. It becomes this
incredible relationship that could last for decades if you take care of that person. But
there’s a lot of short-sighted thinking going on.
And I see why. The reality is the star world is changing so fast and everything’s coming
and going and choice galore. But I will tell you, as a cosmetic patient, you’re never
getting all of their disposable income.
Half of them, some of them might go to this group for Botox, somebody else for filler,
somebody else for laser. They don’t see you as an umbrella, as a one side, you know, my
one stop shop. They’re not looking at you that way.
And I think, huh, that’s a shame. You know, I think we can fix that. Yeah, I don’t know
why I just thought of this because I like food analogies, I like home renovation analogies.
But if you think about food, instead of one type of cuisine, it’s more like a food court.
Yep. And so I think a lot of our colleagues, many of whom you work with, you know,
we’re trained as surgeons.
And so that’s all we know. And I’m kind of the face of surgery for my office as well. And
so you want other non-surgical professionals to be helping supplement, helping to
nurture that journey, as you were saying.
(24:53 – 25:09)
But that’s not easy either. You know, now you have to become, and that’s where my job
comes in. Now you have to become a businessman.
As a plastic surgeon, you can no longer just be a surgeon. You’ve got to be a
businessman, a visionary, a leader, a manager. And on top of that, you have to be a
content creator.
(25:09 – 26:08)
Because now you are the brand. And it’s like, you, I feel for you people. I mean, you, you
have to wear so many hats to make all this work.
I would say the best thing you could ever do is get the right team surrounding you and
supporting you, pay them well, not over the top. I mean, we talked about this some on
your show about my process so far. And I’m very excited now to say that we signed the
lease for a bigger office space.
So finally, some major pieces are moving. And this year 2024 has brought a lot of
change in, and mostly, most of them have been really good change. And if it’s, you
know, a setback, it’s obviously a learning experience.
(26:08 – 27:54)
So, yeah, there’s a lot to talk about there, but enough about me back to you. The other
thing I saw recently, besides the ladder that you spoke of, is you were talking about the
four biggest concerns of patients. And in no particular order, they were regret, fear, pain,
and lastly procrastination.
So you’ve seen, you’ve worked with a lot of classic surgeons who have patients who
experienced these four emotions. And then, of course, when you were writing your book,
you interviewed a lot of patients going through these emotions. So in today’s world of
aesthetic medicine, how does that play out? I mean, it’s, I mean, I’m going to say that it’s
probably different from the year 2000 before social media, before smartphones.
But how do you see that playing out these days? You know what, I’m not even sure it’s
different. I just think it’s accelerated. We’re human beings.
We all have human needs. Some of us, a big majority of us, like, vote appearance at the
top, like priority. It’s a priority.
Appearances. But so is finding your soul and working on your mindset and, you know,
and bettering yourself. And today, bettering yourself means I’d like to help my
appearance.
Tomorrow, it means I’d like to get a degree. The next day, it means I want to get a better
job and promote or start my own business. It’s all about self empowerment and self
betterment.
So today, it’s that it’s plastic surgery. Tomorrow, it’s something else. Same thing when it
comes to money.
(27:54 – 28:18)
Today, they don’t have any money for this for plastic surgery, but they do for a vacation
because that’s important to them or for the new house that they put a deposit on. That’s
more important to them. But then sometimes it’s all about the surgery to them right now
where they’re at in their life.
Plastic surgery is a priority. They will find the money for it, especially women. We will
find the money when we want to.
(28:19 – 28:27)
And then tomorrow, they’ll go back to something else. You know, there’s always we
humans always have a need to for more for more for more. It’s built into us.
(28:27 – 29:11)
And that’s why we want to cater to that for them because you want them to get in front
of skilled experienced surgeons who really care about the results that they’re going to
give. You don’t want to fiddle with this with this crazy, like running off to Mexico. And
frankly, by the time you’ve run off to Turkey, what would that have cost? And you have
to sit on a plane after you’ve had surgery or you stand the hotel for like week or week or
two.
I mean, that I don’t know. I just, I don’t see the balance there on, but you know what
happened? You did such a good job on Instagram that they you’re the one, you know,
that’s why marketing is so important. Just that’s why I talk about the business and
marketing of plastic surgery.
(29:11 – 29:36)
The marketing can really get you far, but you have to have your house in order before
you invite a bunch of people over with your marketing. So you need both because so
many doctors are such good marketers, but their internal systems are a train wreck.
They don’t have any processes set up.
Nobody can even answer the phone. Nobody answers the DMS because no one’s in
charge of it or I thought she was going to do it. And it’s just a mess internally.
(29:36 – 29:52)
So you want to get your ducks in a row internally and then market to bring people in and
then retain them. It’s all about as a plastic surgeon, I personally would say it’s about
patient attraction, conversion and retention. You know, you need all the reason.
(29:53 – 30:07)
Yeah, I think, I mean, the first thought that comes to mind is that. Back in the old day
when it was more word of mouth. That was the predominant referral source retention
was more on top of people’s mind.
(30:08 – 31:03)
And nowadays with the advance of social media and internet, it’s all about grabbing the
attention of the new person. And so when you focus so much energy on that because it
does require a lot of energy and a lot of time and effort. And it’s like putting drops into
an ocean sometimes, right? You feel like, oh, I have to get this post.
I have to get this video online for the next new person. And like you said, if you don’t
have your ducks in a row internally, you’re doing your existing patients a disservice
because you’re not following up with them. You’re not optimizing all the operating
procedures in place to say, Hey, this is the best that we can do for your service, not just
for your procedure or the surgery that they have, but leading up to it, following up after
it and so on and so forth.
(31:04 – 31:22)
They need a while patient experience before, during and after. By the way, I tell the
surgeons, you have a choice. You can spend time or money.
You’re both. So in the old days, not too long ago, you would just throw a bunch of money
at Google AdWords. And the beauty of that is, well, now it’s way too crowded.
(31:22 – 31:42)
But the beauty was, if some, if you were promoting a rhinoplasty, otherwise known as a
nose job to consumers, and I want to remind everybody if the consumer is saying nose
job, do not call it a rhinoplasty because they want to have to say nose job too. Yeah, you
have to say nose job. And if they’re looking for a nose job, they go to Google, put a nose
job and your ad pops up.
(31:43 – 32:03)
That’s a beautiful quick A to B. You know, they’re looking and here’s your ad. That’s a
good solid or used to be a very good solid lead. But if you’re doing social media, all
you’re doing is taking your personality or whatever you have or whatever skills you have
for social, you’re throwing it out into the whole world, to the whole world.
(32:03 – 32:51)
And you’re saying, so who likes me? Who’s interested? And now you’ve got a lot coming
at you. But when you have the public coming at you, you didn’t get to decide who did
that after you. And now you’re playing this other game of, I have a bunch of leads, but
how am I going to triage these? Like, who really, really is ready? You know what they’re
ready to say hi to you and meet you and, you know, and interact with you and DM you,
but are they ready for surgery? That’s the issue.
The A to B got way longer, you know, the middle. And that’s where you take, you need
that internal system of qualifying leads. So, so now like, what would you say is the best
way for you like patient attraction, because I still think word of mouth is by far the
absolute fastest, cheapest, easiest way.
(32:51 – 33:57)
And I think the most direct approach ever, it will always be that way as well. But I spend
more time trying to figure that out. How do I get Susan to tell Karen? I, when Karen says,
you look fantastic.
And I need Susan to say, Oh, you know what? I went to Dr. Kim had a little right, you
know, had a little something done. And she’s like, Oh my God, that’s what’s different.
Your nose.
You look back. And now she’s getting positive feedback and she’s willing to share with
her friends. And then hopefully she’ll share on social media on her platforms.
And now she’ll lead more people over to you. If we could spend more time figuring that
out, that’s such a more direct approach than anybody is who’s anybody who’s
everybody. You know, that’s a tough game to play.
Absolutely. And when I think about who among the patients who contact us is ready.
That’s a process of, you might say we’re eliminating the leads, but I would say it’s more
qualifying them and making sure that the ones who are ready.
(33:58 – 34:14)
Not just physically, but also mentally, emotionally. They’re the ones that get through the
door that get to see me and my other non surgical professionals to start a journey. Like
you said, to get on that ladder.
(34:15 – 34:21)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’ve never gotten off that ladder. No, religiously.
(34:21 – 34:36)
Right. Right. So in terms of, I mean, kind of a related question, but along the acceleration
of all this with the internet and social media.
(34:37 – 35:31)
What kind of trend have you seen in the past five, 10 years where if you were standing in
the year 2014. And now you look here, you’re like, whoa, that happened. I would have
never expected that to happen.
What kind of trend would you say comes to mind in terms of our field plastic surgery and
aesthetic medicine. The biggest one with social media, having to turn the surgeon into
an entertainment center has been a real interesting phenomena, because most of the
surgeons are not. They’re, they’re introverted people who have studied for 14 years to
be a surgeon.
It’s, it’s not their nature typically. But some of the surgeons, it is, and I’ve been so
surprised at the ones who are good at it are crushing it. But keep in mind, they have the
infrastructure set up to do it that way.
(35:31 – 36:03)
You know, so they’re, they’re playing that game, but I never thought it really bothers me
that a really good mediocre surgeon can beat out a really good surgeon, at least in the
short run, because they’re good at this. They’re just good at, you can be very good at
marketing and a mediocre surgeon and that worries me, because I think a lot of people
have a lot of crazy work done because they’re going to somebody that looks so good on
Instagram. And in real life, it was like, they’re not hearing the patient, the patient’s
telling you what they want, or the patient’s telling you what they want.
(36:03 – 36:09)
And the surgeon’s like, okay, that’s what you want. I can’t, you know, I have to give it to
them. And no, you don’t, you know, that’s your work.
(36:09 – 37:08)
That’s your reputation. That’s your whole life, your livelihood as well. I mean, absolutely.
Yeah. Do you find that that the patients like are trending more towards just over the top
kind of results or expectations? At least on the East Coast, it’s not as prevalent as
probably in California, or even in Florida. It’s exclusively on the face and neck.
And it’s even more apparent than bodywork, right? So, even when I have people for
rhinoplasty consultations, and we do renderings for me to figure out what they’re looking
for. And the look that they’re going for is not the Beverly Hills nose. It’s really perhaps a
straighter version of what you probably could have been born with.
(37:08 – 37:23)
And so, at least here in the DC area, that’s kind of what people are going for. And they’re
very happy with it. And so, who am I to say, oh, you need a Beverly Hills style nose on
your face to be a success.
(37:23 – 37:31)
No, absolutely not. You know, if that’s what you’re going for, then that’s what you’re
going for. And I have to make sure that you breathe as well or better than before as well.
(37:35 – 38:17)
I, it’s so true. Like what culture are you in, but also what are your boundaries as a
physician and as a surgeon? I think you have to get so clear who you are. And what
you’re willing to do.
I have watched too many surgeons, you know, chase the money and, especially in places
like Florida is out of control. And I don’t, I don’t think it was ever meant to be that,
although like everything else, you know, there’s always extremes on both sides. Most
people, I would say, just want to look better, feel good, look great, love their look, feel
confident, and just look natural.
(38:18 – 38:47)
You know, I don’t want anyone saying to me, whoa, who did that? You know, you just
want a nice natural look that and you want to stay younger. Now, I heard a quote once
and I thought, isn’t that the truth? I don’t mind getting older, but I do mind looking old.
And it’s so true.
Like, I used to be on the other end when I was much younger, it was such different
motivation. But now that I’m older, like the aging face kind of thing, that’s a completely
different mindset. So now I’m really equipped.
(38:47 – 39:14)
I know what it’s like when you’re younger, when you’re getting older, and then when
you’re really getting older, like, you know, how do you hang on to things. But it’s still a
rational mindset, you know, like I still work on my soul, my mindset, my body, I exercise
every day, I take vitamins, I do meditation, like I still do all of that. I would actually talk
more to the cosmetic patients about what else do you do to feel good and look great,
you know.
(39:15 – 40:02)
Because if this is their only, I once, I used to work with this woman a million years ago,
and we were sales people, and we were young, and we’re all in the computer room, and
she’s like, God, I hate my nose and my chin, I just hate this. And she was really nasty.
She was really a very negative person.
So, many months later, she comes in, she had her nose and chin. She looked fantastic.
And I said, Oh my God, you look so good.
I swear to God, when we were back in the computer room, she sounded like the same
unhappy person that she was worried, I thought, and I said to her, what happened? This
was supposed to make you happy. And it was so crazy. I realized, wait a second, we
have to watch what we want, you know, what are we saying we really want, you know.
(40:02 – 40:53)
Right. Yeah, it’s a full dress for her. Yeah, didn’t make any difference for her.
She still wasn’t happy, you know, and then also the ones I worry about because those
are the ones who are going up and down that ladder way too much for the wrong
reasons. Yeah, you just built up elastic, lactic acid in your, in your legs going up and
down so much. Well, it’s not the answer.
It’s not the only answer. It’s, it’s an, it’s the, think about your life as, as a, as a play, you
know, like where are you going with your life and you get to control it, you know, you’re
the actor and the director and the producer, you know, you get to decide how this goes.
Well, well, if you have a religious venue with God helping you, of course, but I mean, it’s
just, it’s just so interesting because a long time ago, I used to believe one thing about
plastic surgery and now I believe something else.
(40:54 – 41:12)
It’s good for the soul. If you’re in the right mindset. Absolutely.
Yeah. I know that that’s a, that’s great for us to hear as the providers and professionals
in terms of helping the patients through that journey. And also hearing it as a patient.
(41:13 – 42:42)
So the next thing we talked about the last five, 10 years, what is a hot take that you see
coming over the next five to 10 years in our field of plastic surgery and aesthetic
medicine. Well, obviously it’s AI. That is going to be a game changer and frankly, I can’t
tell.
I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be good for plastic surgery, because already I found a
video or a software. And like right now I’m sitting here doing this, the software can take
this, what I’m doing right now, and it, and I can give it another script and it will change
my shirt and it’ll say something else. So, and it’s not there yet.
Like you can tell something’s off on it. You know, you can tell, okay, she’s talking and she
looks like she herself but something’s not right. So it’s not perfect, but it’s going to be.
I think there’s going to be so much misinformation. And I tell the surgeons all the time,
please get your, get your watermarks on your photos and date them, because I think
people are going to be stealing your photos like crazy, you know, because you’re
showing really good results. And I just, I think we’re going to be a group of, is that real?
Is that real? Like the distrust is, I think, going to expand unbelievably, because who do
you believe? How do you, how do you know what’s right? What isn’t? So, I think, although
I like it a lot, I don’t know about anybody else, but it has become my new search engine.
(42:42 – 43:36)
And the issue with that is, well, as a consumer, I love to go to AI because I don’t have to
click on the 10 clicks that Google’s going to give me. I just say, what’s the best? Who’s
the best? And, or like, you know, whatever I’m shopping for, they do all the research for
me. And then they just get me an answer.
Now, I’m sure there’s bias baked into that, but at the moment, it’s so much more
convenient. So, if that’s true and more consumers do that, how are they ever going to
find your website? Unless, unless somehow chat GPT has deemed you the authority,
when I asked for the best rhino surgeon, somehow, how, they have to choose you. I don’t
even know what their variables are anymore or what the rules are for them to decide
that because somebody behind the scenes decided that I’m not clear about that.
(43:36 – 43:45)
That’s why if you think social media is the, is it right now? I don’t know. I just don’t. I
think you have to be everywhere you can possibly be like you doing a podcast.
(43:46 – 43:51)
You know, that’s what I’m doing. I’m just on all channels as much as possible. Lots of
consistent content.
(43:51 – 44:00)
And you need the third party people talking about you, you know, because that’s what
they’ll say. Oh, everyone else is talking about him. You know, I’m, I will too.
(44:00 – 44:22)
But that part has gotten super complicated and AI, I think is going to make it more so.
Although, I do like the idea of using it in plastic surgery practices for the business side.
For example, when we were talking about patient attraction, I think technology, AI,
especially can handle the inquiries.
(44:22 – 44:51)
Let them do the initial qualifying of the inquiries. Then when people answer like a couple
of questions that look pretty good, like they’re answering, they’re raising their hand,
then they can become a suspect. But now they have to jump over a couple more gates.
And then they become a true prospect. Let’s say when they book the console, now
humans should get involved. Now, you know, because that’s one easy way to set
yourself up for success without getting so distracted.
(44:51 – 45:30)
By the Instagram wannabe people, like you’re going to get hundreds of leads and how,
you know, I say triage with AI and technology and only focus on the true blue ones that
really raise their hand and said, I’m willing to come in. Like, you know, and I’m willing to
call your office. Do you know what I mean people? You can’t even get people to call your
office anymore.
They just want to email or text you. Because nobody’s going to do it anymore. So
anyway, just start thinking more strategically about how you use technology to help you
because staffing issues have come up.
(45:30 – 45:39)
You know, a lot of people don’t want to work full time, that kind of thing. I would use AI.
AI is going to help us a lot with admin, I think.
(45:39 – 48:02)
Yeah, one thing I noticed now on Google search is that now Gemini is Google’s AI engine
and there’s a TLDR at the very top. It’s not the first search result, or even the first
sponsor results anymore. It’s the Gemini output that is the very first thing you see in
response to your search worry.
And that’s mind-blowing to me. Whoa. So you Google something and the Gemini search
result comes up.
Yeah, so it’s all the sponsored ads. Yeah. And so it’s the AI carousel and you can scroll
through the tiny boxes of AI and where they got the sources from.
And so it’ll take a few of the top organic results and make a TLDR out of it. So that the
consumer never has to go to another website ever again. Because they have to
compete.
Yeah, that’s how Google’s going to compete and go, boy, that’s tough. Yeah. But like you
said, it’s changing everything’s accelerated now.
And these times are fast. And some people have the tools and the wherewithal to keep
up with it. And others don’t.
We need a little bit of help. But there are people like you to help us out. Well, because I
can see it from a different perspective, you’re so in the weeds in your own practice and
it’s so emotional.
That’s why you turn to somebody like me. I’m from a different perspective. I’ve seen
hundreds of practices and how they do it.
I’ve been around for a long time. So I see how it used to be done, how it is done now.
And I can stay neutral.
I can say, honestly, from my 24 years of experience, this is a good road to go down. And
it’s just a different perspective. And I look at it from the patient’s point of view.
You often, you have to look at it from the surgeon’s point of view and the owner’s point
of view, because it’s your practice, it’s your name on everything, it’s your risk. And so if
you’re still open to learning and adapting to other ideas, that’s perfect to bring
somebody else in who can look at it a lot more strategically than you can. Because they
just have a different bag of tools that you don’t have.
(48:03 – 48:32)
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you’ve been very successful at making many plastic surgeon
successful.
So I just want to applaud you on your contribution to our field to plastic surgery and
aesthetic medicine. And I look forward to even better, greater things from beauty in the
biz, from Catherine Mailey. I see nothing but great things for even on the road ahead.
(48:33 – 49:24)
I’d like to say the same for you. I noticed you have a new skincare line. You are crushing
it.
The new building skincare line, different kinds of procedures, innovative techniques. I’m
really looking forward to watching you grow. I appreciate it.
There are two questions that I always ask every guest at the end. Besides your work in
aesthetic medicine, plastic surgery, helping our colleagues, where else do you find
beauty in your life? My my Cavapoo, his name is Cash. He and I hike.
We’re well known in our neighborhood because we’re very habitual and we’re the first
ones out at five in the morning and then we go out again after dinner. And we just I live
around nature. I just love nature and my dog and I are hiking like crazy and cash has to
get groomed every other Friday because he picks up every week in the world.
(49:24 – 49:32)
But it’s a blast. I just I am a dog lover big time. If you looked at my website, you’ll see I’m
all sorts of things but a dog lover big time.
(49:32 – 49:53)
That makes two of us. I just think dogs are just the greatest. They’re so he he lets me do
all the talking.
He listens to me. I love when he cocks his head like what? Yeah, it’s so cute. Anyway,
when I walk by, I just I find them so pure, you know, and he reminds me to don’t lose my
sense of humor.
(49:53 – 50:01)
Because I’m actually very funny, but everything. Yeah, I actually am. And so he and I, he
just reminds me to laugh and chill.
(50:02 – 50:31)
All right. Wonderful. So, yeah, from one dog lover to the other.
Definitely that resonates with me. And the very last thing I’ll ask you before we conclude
our session is how can people learn more about Catherine Mailey and her work in making
the world a more beautiful place. Well, I mean, always my website is Catherine Mailey
calm and it’s Catherine of the sea.
I’m Irish Catholic from Chicago. I can’t lose my accent. I’ve gone forever.
(50:32 – 50:44)
And then on that website, you’ll see I have a podcast of over 270 interviews. I’ve done
with the plastic surgeons. I have over 500 blog posts, everything about marketing and
business of plastic surgery.
(50:44 – 51:42)
And then I also have a YouTube channel. And there are all those podcasts are also on
video cast or video cast. So there’s a ton of content.
And I used to be so afraid. Oh, my God, I mean, I’m going to run out of content. No, life
keeps changing so quickly.
Plenty of content. Always. Absolutely.
And, you know, having done this podcast now for close to half a year, it’s enjoyable. I
mean, there is some grunt work, as you know, but it’s so enjoyable, you know, coming
up, even with the solo episodes of the content that people want to hear about, but also
speaking to other experts in all sorts of aspects of beauty. I have, in addition to people in
our own industry, I’ve had makeup artists, photographers, other lifestyle coaches talking
about how they make the world a more beautiful place.
(51:43 – 52:28)
But again, I want to thank you so much for your contribution to our industry for spending
this time with me talking about all things as a consumer and as a plastic surgery office
about our industry and how it’s going forward. So again, thank you so much for your
time. I really appreciate it.
Absolutely. Anytime. All right.
That concludes this episode of the You’re Beautiful podcast with J Kim MD. Again, a huge
thanks to Catherine Mailey for spending time with me talking about all things plastic
surgery and aesthetic medicine. We’re going to leave some links down below for more of
her content, including her book, Your Aesthetic Practice and her Beauty and the Biz
podcast.
(52:28 – 52:37)
So until next time, remember these three core tenets. Number one, you’re beautiful,
number two, you’re unique, and number three, you’re worth it. Take care, everyone.
(52:40 – 52:46)
Okay. Excellent. We pulled it off, huh? We did.
(52:46 – 52:49)
Whatever hiccups we had in the beginning. Yeah. We overcame.
(52:50 – 52:52)
No, we’re pros. We can figure this out. Yeah.
(52:52 – 52:55)
I’m all about. Everything’s figureoutable. If it kills me.
(52:56 – 53:06)
There’s a podcast with that name, right? Everything is figureoutable or solvable or
something. There’s a coach from New Jersey named. What’s her name? Oh my God.
(53:06 – 53:21)
She said it a lot. Her mother said it a million years ago to her, and now it’s well known,
figureoutable. I just love it.
I can’t remember her name, but yes, she’s. Yeah. I don’t make up anything.
I just, I hear something. I’ll often tweak something that I heard. Yeah.
(53:22 – 53:33)
So, was this okay? We’re good? We’re good? Yes. Yes. In terms of housekeeping, I’m not
sure if Dropbox or Google Drive or whatever is the best way.
(53:33 – 53:43)
And then we’ll send you probably a Dropbox link. I think that would be our best bet. And
then let us know whatever else you need, but I’ll just send you the raw thing and you
edit it as you want on.
(53:44 – 53:52)
I didn’t realize at the beginning you were doing an intro. I thought. Oh, we’re jumping
right in.
Okay. Yeah. No worry that.
(53:52 – 53:57)
Oh, that was really good juicy stuff. So I appreciate it. Oh, of course.
(53:57 – 54:07)
So when, when does the ETA, what’s the ETA on the new building? That’s a big. Oh,
yeah. So, yeah, there’s a med spa side that’s planned, hopefully by springtime.
(54:08 – 54:17)
And then the quality side will probably be end of next year. I was looking forward to that.
Total about a 5000 usable.
(54:18 – 54:24)
Yeah. So it’s going to be a one room. And then, yeah, for whatever.
(54:25 – 54:38)
And then there will be other a more vamped. Wellness, you know, kind of like hyperbaric,
IV therapy, led. Those kinds of things in addition to the injectables and the aesthetician
services.
(54:38 – 55:06)
So that just reminded me of something I think if you are focused on recovery, I think
that’s going to be another huge trend. If I called somebody and I wanted a facelift and
they said you’re going to be down for three weeks, or you say, well, I have a rapid
recovery program for facelift and I can get you back up in seven days, you know, I would
pay extra for that, you know. So if that’s where your plan is, I think it’s a great idea and
market the heck out of that.
(55:07 – 55:11)
Oh, yeah. For sure. We’re going to, yeah, there can be a lot of upfront costs, obviously.
(55:12 – 55:32)
So we’ll need. Packages are going to be the thing, which one packages are going to be
the thing longitudinal journey and my signature procedures. You know, like you, like
you’re, everything’s like an experience now a package patient experience kind of thing.
(55:32 – 55:41)
It’s all inclusive. You know, we have to take things from other industries and use them
here. You know, because you know how you can nickel and dime somebody to death or
you can just sell the package.
(55:41 – 55:53)
Some people don’t want, they’re just like, would you just give me everything I need? Just
give it to me. Like, and we wish more were like that, of course, but not everybody. You
know, like money, no object.
(55:53 – 56:06)
But I just, I think you’re doing your, no practice has ever gone under. I promise you, I
have never known, unless he was sabotaging the heck out of it. Like he was sleeping
with all the staff.
(56:07 – 56:11)
He had a drug problem. There was a drinking problem. They’re, um, they’re fiddling
around with the money.
(56:11 – 56:30)
You know, those, those are those I don’t count because you’re, you’re making that
happen. But anybody who’s playing this game intelligently and strategically and
honestly, you can’t, you can’t lose. Honestly, you make more in one hour than every 85%
of the population.
(56:30 – 56:44)
You know, I mean, people want what you have and the beauty of what you do is you can
laser me all day. But I need surgery eventually, you know, like you have, we’re going to
need surgery. I can’t believe a robot’s going to do a rhino plasty.
(56:44 – 56:51)
I just, I don’t see that. I, or maybe it is, but not in your lifetime or mine. You know, I
mean, I think, I think you’re in such good shape.
(56:52 – 57:19)
I would think about like your, your signature rhino, you know, um, or like, do you do like
a special Asian rhino or something? If you can niche some of that, um, I think they’d
come in from all over the world to do your, you know, your Asian rhino or whatever.
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve been, um, talking to my staff a lot about Alex from OZ principles and then
also, um, Simon Sinek is a favorite of my practice manager Tracy. Okay.
(57:19 – 57:24)
We’ve been talking about the infinite game as long as you stay in it. You’re not, you’re
not playing to win. You’re playing to stay in it.
(57:24 – 57:33)
Yes. And be happy doing it. Do you know how many surgeons I work with are miserable?
They’re miserable because they realize, wait a second.
(57:33 – 57:45)
I’m working my ass off. I’m because they can’t grow. They can’t let other, they’re so
afraid that people, like the staff’s going to rob them, you know, and they can’t manage
them and they’re so, they’re just so tight.
(57:45 – 58:14)
But then they get to, they get to do everything, you know, is, and then they’re miserable.
They have to do everything because they won’t let anyone else help them, you know,
the way, or they don’t trust them enough. Um, it just goes, I have learned so much
running my own business and helping surgeons.
I’ve learned so much about my own. Crap, you know, like my own boundaries and my
own, like what holds me back? Because you can hear what holds somebody back talking
to them. Like, it’s so easy for me to see somebody else’s, but I can’t see my own spots or
blocks or whatever.
(58:15 – 58:23)
So true. But I just love what you’re doing. I, it’s so different.
And I hope it’s, I hope you crush it, you know. Thank you. Yeah.
(58:23 – 58:38)
Let me know if you need anything because I’ll be watching. Yeah. All right.
I appreciate it so much. All right. We’ll get the link to you probably.
What is today? Friday. Oh my God. What is today? Oh my gosh.
Okay. We’ll definitely have it to you by Monday. Yeah.
Okay. All right. I appreciate it.
(58:38 – 58:40)
Thank you. Have a good weekend. Have a good weekend.
(58:41 – 58:41)
Bye. Bye.