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Ep.72: Interview with Shady Hayek, MD

Dr. Shady Hayek is a plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Beirut, Lebanon and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

He is a member, author of articles and speaker at a number of national and international meetings, including ASAPS and ISAPS.

Dr. Hayek is also on the editorial board and is a reviewer of several medical journals.

Dr. Shady Hayek is a plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Beirut, Lebanon and Riyadh, which is the capital of Saudi Arabia. 1500 miles apart – drive or fly?

He is a member, author of articles and speaker at several national and international meetings, including ASAPS and ISAPS.

Dr. Hayek is also on the editorial board and he’s a reviewer of several medical journals.

Visit Dr. Hayek’s Website

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Beauty and the Biz

Ep.72: Interview with Shady Hayek, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of surgery. I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice: What Your Patients Are Saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. And today I have an incredibly special guest all the way from Beirut, Lebanon, and his name is Dr. Shady Hayek. Does he have the greatest name, Shady Hayek? So, he is a plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Beirut, Lebanon, as well as Riyadh. And for those of you who don’t know, Riyadh is the capital of Saudi Arabia, and it’s about 1500 miles away. So, we’ll talk about that as well. And he’s been in practice for over 12 years now. Now, Dr. Hayek is a member of as well as speaker at several of the national as well as international medical conferences including [inaudible 01:13]. And that’s where we met at several conferences throughout probably the world, Dr. Hayek is also on editorial board, and he’s a reviewer of several medical journals. And he’s also authored numerous articles on his own. So, suffice it to say, he’s very active in the medical community. So, Dr. Hayek, I wanted to welcome you to Beauty and the Biz.

Shady Hayek, MD: Thank you, Catherine, for this nice introduction.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You are welcome.

Shady Hayek, MD: It’s a pleasure to see you again.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you, you too. So, tell me, it’s a big question over here. We have watched what’s been going on in Beirut, Lebanon. And if you could just give us an update What happened? And how are things now and were you in proximity to everything happening?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, it’s an unfortunate accident and devastating one at the same time. Luckily enough, I was outside the country just covered quarantined at the time. So, I was in with my family in Saudi Arabia, when this happened. And I just happened to visit Beirut about two weeks ago, where the airport’s first opened here in Riyadh. And I was I was pretty amazed and stuff, pretty amazed at the amount of destruction that this explosion has caused. Every time I pass through that area, and I discovered new beliefs that were supposed to be there and they’re not there anymore. They’re just rubbish now. And so 3d is receiving from both an economic and business point of view as well as from a personal and you made point of view. There are many economies that have been just lost homes, Americans, lost their property lost their relatives or their loved ones through surgery.

Catherine Maley, MBA: How far away was your practice from that? Because I see on Facebook, you were saying we’re coming back. So, you must have been affected your practice?

Shady Hayek, MD: Yes, actually a huge area affected by the last, including the building where my clinic in Beirut is about So, three kilometers from the center of the of the explosion. So, all the grass in the building was destroyed. And we had to replace that. And luckily enough, it was in the evening and my staff were not present before Connect. So, there were no bodily injuries in my clinic. However, there’s there has been some positive injuries, the clinics nearby were still operating. At that time. On that day. I was lucky enough to demand an EKG system mechanical just had some property that we were able to reconstruct and to come back to this.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. That’s amazing. So, are you like, how much capacity Are you back? Are you all 100% capacity now or what were you out with that?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, from a physical point of view, we can be 100% capacity. However, because of the limitations in the Prebble and the limitations and the budget, we are now practicing around 1314 and 15% capacity. And you know, we’re still in the presence of the contract. We cannot schedule formal performance. I suppose as we used to, we also have to take into consideration that whenever I go back to the room, I have to be quarantined for a while until the PCR result is negative. The same thing happens when I go back to, to the ER. So, I picked up this constellation. So, I cannot do anymore The Wi Fi travels back and forth. But now I’m doing like Sunday [inaudible 05:30].

Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow, I forgot about that. So, if you leave Riyadh, and you go to Beirut, are you quarantine for 10 days?

Shady Hayek, MD: No. Because for some people will get quality for 14 days, even not for four days. But the way happens if you do your PCR and it says negative before you travel, and then you repeat the PCR when you go to the city country, you have to be quarantined for 48 hours until the PCR result is still negative. You are free to move around the world. Taking the precautions are social distancing, and wearing the mask symbol and washing and all this stuff. And but it’s official, the official orders are responsible then you have to read for time for 14 days for [inaudible 06:26].

Catherine Maley, MBA: I gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. Oh, dear. Wow, that’s complicated. Okay. Because were you? How did How were you set up? Because you have a full practice in Beirut? And then did you have a full practice in Riyadh? And were you So, have like two full practices and you’re moving back and forth?

Shady Hayek, MD: Yes. So, the way it used to happen before. You know, when you do the surgery, you usually see the patient about five days to one week after the surgery. So, and there’s a difference in the weekends between the art and visual so that we can rehab is Friday, Saturday, the weekend, Saturday, Sunday. So, I used to get to make use of this difference. And I used to spend every Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. This way, if I do it, on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday, I can see them back on one screen when I refer to a search area on Saturday or Sunday. I can see number the week after when I come to here.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Um, I was actually in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia a couple years ago, and that was really throwing me off that Sunday was Monday. Or for me, I just– it’s funny, it’s just– So, regarding business, like setting up a cosmetic practice, we’ll just talk about your practice in Beirut. Is that your main practice? Like is Beirut the main practice?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, I consider them both means, so like 50/50. Do what it says I used to spend my time here Sunday, but I put all my efforts in both of them.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then– Okay, when you set that up, and because I noticed you also have another surgeon as well as a dietitian. So, are those practitioners? Are they also moving back and forth with you? Are you trying to mimic your practice? Like how does all that work like the staff go back and forth? Or how you’re working that out?

Shady Hayek, MD: No, my staff in Beirut are constantly in here and the and the surgeon who used to be with me, currently is in Canada. She just finished two fellowships, one in breast reconstruction and one in reverse surgery, she was supposed to come back often due to the situation tuition in London, I both try to stay current. Now, we’re not sure if she’s going to come back or not. But I hope she can be able to find something in Canada as aspirational is not a good one, to start practicing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, so managing staff, how are you doing that? If you’re not there? How do the staff only work when you’re there? Or do they also do services? I always wondered that like in America, a lot of times the surgeons do the surgery and then they have a Medi spa where they have non-surgical treatments done by nurse injectors or laser techs. Do you have the same situation over there?

Shady Hayek, MD: It’s almost the same. It’s against the law to have an injector in your practice here in the Middle East, okay, so only the doctor can non-surgical be injected. However, other stuff on non-surgical stuff such as laser hair removal, laser [inaudible 10:00], mesotherapy, [inaudible 10:07] and all these kinds of services that do not need, the presence of surgery can be done by the technician who is certified. And this is how my practice keeps on going one another.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And then do they manage themselves? Do you have a manager managing them? Or are who’s What? Who’s watching the shop? Who’s handling that?

Shady Hayek, MD: So, I would start by saying three key factors is to find the right people that you can trust, when you are asked by people that work by being conscientious, first, and second, by you trusting them with your property, with your patience with your equipment, and everything. So, this is the number one key for, for having this succeed. The second key factor that has been in the past few years active is social media. And this is our answer not and monitoring remote communication, remote meetings are noticed during coverage like me, and you right now, we are about 10 hours away in time zones. And here we are having this conversation. So, the same thing. I have this compensation databases with my staff, we debrief their day, we make sure that everything is on track, if they have any questions or have any concerns, they can ask me during a meeting and we tackle them. And I’m usually absent only four days a week. So, put them around or a weekend. So, another very absent from So, my practice in Beirut.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, one issue that I have noticed, consulting with practices, a concern is embezzlement. And whenever cash is involved, that can cause some trouble is here in America, everything is very much credit card related. So that’s helpful. But over there, is it also credit card? Or is there a lot of cash involved?

Shady Hayek, MD: We practice only, I mean, we use several kinds of payments. Cash is our main source. And we use credit cards, we use checks, we use bank transfers. But again, if you have a person and a bad person that you can trust in place, then you can force them in with you.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you have any pearls for how you find the right people? You have any? Is there something special you’re doing to find and trust people?

Shady Hayek, MD: First of all, for you to make people trustworthy, you need to be a trustworthy person. He needs to be transparent with your people, you need to be a true leader while you are there for them in their troubles, as well as in their present time. So, the way I treat my So, staff is like family to have even a personal problem, they can always come to me. And I’ll try to help them as much as they can. Sometimes it can even for personal advices. Being close to them makes So, things much easier. And I do believe that sometimes managers and leaders, they need to be decisive, they need to be strict. But this does not have to come at the expense of being a true advisors and humble leaders. So being humble leaders may state much easier from this perspective.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, you happen to have that kind of personality. I know I gravitated to you the minute I met you there’s something about you that’s very disarming and transparent and honest. And I think you’re so right. You have to be who you want to attract. And I think you’re like that you’re warm and friendly and open and So, I think that’s what shows in your staff. So, you’ve attracted the same people that you want, so congratulations.

Shady Hayek, MD: You know, this also reflects on your practice. So, I believe that social scientists, the kind of patients and then try like that personality. So even I’ve heard this from the other staff and where I work where I get my searches done from a seizure from nurses, those commands that your patients are always stressing to patients are always Come, they’re not angry, they’re not shouting, they’re not they come to the surgery as if they are coming to, to fulfill their dreams, they are smiling, they are not anxious. So, when the patient comes under the knife and don’t understand the seizures, many times are they are they are anxious, but then when you have somebody that you are trusting in your life, and you may you are sure that this person is going to do all he can all a he has the capacity to do to make you look better and to keep you safe, then you are going there with less anxiety, more pleasant, and you will be smoother than others.

Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, essentially, you’ve been in practice, just I love to learn from mistakes made. And we can all you know, rather than make this mistake again and again, I’d rather learn from somebody who already made one. So, can you just share just one mistake you made when building your practice that others could avoid?

Shady Hayek, MD: Personally, [inaudible 16:09] people. I started my talk about being humble leader and being trustworthy to have others skill, you have always to be on the watch. People are using their trust. And this has happened a couple of times with me. But when you are when you are alerted for that, then you try to avoid.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, would you say staff has been the biggest challenge of growing a practice or something else?

Shady Hayek, MD: I would say Yeah. No, it was something else it was partners.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good point. Yes. How do you find that? Because that’s always the million-dollar question, you know, who do you partner with?

Shady Hayek, MD: And the reason for that is that case of Arabia, the way to build a practice that you always have to partner with a local and either a businessman, a local businessman or a local surgeon, somebody who has the ability to create diversity and solidarity. So, finding that partner has been a struggle for quite a while, but luckily, I was able to find somebody who is trustworthy and we million-dollar speak the same language both from a patient care for you and from a business. And this is very important. So, you know, in karate surgery, you have two major pillars. One of them is quality, quality of care, quality of products or services, you have to maintain that to maintain high quality of service you are offering for you clients. And on the other side is cosmetic surgery and presented services have been quite popular in the past, say decade or more, and then your prices, and it has to be reasonable. It’s not any more for the need. Everybody, if you if you’re $1,000 or $1,000 a month, then you want to look presentable. And making this available to or tailored to several economical statuses makes your practice grow faster and larger. At the same time, you cannot compromise on quality. So there has there has to always be a balance between getting the high-quality products, high quality services, and yet at the same price level and competitive price. Okay. So, finally, find someone who can understand these two pillars is very difficult. And finding someone high-quality who is willing to high-quality invest and not looking for the fast sound investment. Okay, it’s also difficult. So, luckily, I was able to partner with someone in Saudi Arabia, and it’s the currency clinic and so far, things are great. From that perspective,

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, when you partner is it a 50/50 kind of thing or do you bring them on as a consultant and pay them a fee? How does it work over there?

Shady Hayek, MD: There are several business models, one of them you have mentioned and 15, one of them is, you say I don’t want to, I don’t want to take care of any overheads, or any expenses. So, you try to estimate those and take them out of percentage. So, there are several models that you can do. The model does not really, it’s not, it’s not very important. Because at the end of the day, when you when you calculate the numbers, all numbers will come to the same. And the same result, the most important thing is to find that partner, who can, you can trust and to speak the same language that you are speaking, and then having the equation becomes easy.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I always recommend that you have the same values and vision. And you really have talked deeply about how you feel about patients about business, what you said patient care, are you looking at the patient’s as $1? Or you know, as a as money? Or are you looking at them as a person? You know, I think you have to share those values.

Shady Hayek, MD: I agree with you, I thought these come under the umbrella of quality. Because when I say quality, it’s not just quality of product, it’s also the quality of the service. So, the service under the service counts, how do you treat the patient? How do you manage the patient’s expectations? How do you follow up with the patients? How you make patients feel comfortable about themselves about being cared for. And if you look at the reviews that I get for patients, either in our recording English on yourself or on Google or anywhere, there’s always a repeated message from these patients is that we have care about cared about, the doctor has all our questions, he was available all the time, 24 hours or 24 hours, he gave us his personal number so that we can get in touch with him whenever needed before the surgery during the surgery after surgery, we felt cared for because we’re taken good care of. So, take this is the repetitive passage that he got through reading my reviews, patients write about me. So, part of the service on this comes the patient care for patients like you said, you do view them as long as the machine a machine or as So, human beings that are really paying to get a good service.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I’ll tell you, it’s universal, human beings want to be treated well, and the better you treat them the right one, you know, you have to get the right patient on board. But the better you treat them, the more they’ll help you grow your practice. I just I’ve been singing that song for 20 years. And it’s so true.

Shady Hayek, MD: It is reciprocal. So, whenever you choose a patient’s world, it will be honorable, the competition will always understand that this is a complication and they teach you back. So, it is being good to the patient is reciprocal, and being arrogant and not treating them well. Always is also reciprocal, if they have a problem, they are going to make sure that you get punished for it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when I was in Jeddah, I was trying to understand like what did they want there? Because I didn’t know if the patient was any different there than in the US. And in the US. They want everything, you know, they just they want everything. And it’s all it can be over the top. But it over in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, I thought that they would be different and it turns out, no, they pretty much wanted what everybody wants. They just wanted to look good, feel good about themselves. And, and but you know, they were wearing the garb, you know, I can’t remember what it’s called now. I’m sorry, I can’t remember all of that. And I thought, well, who would care? Like, why do you care? And it turns out, they care every day. You know, everyone cares about how they look and feel. So, would you say–?

Shady Hayek, MD: — So that they can feel good about us. And this is the real essence of surgery, if the patient is trying to feel good for glucose for somebody else, because the surgeon should be very careful about that. The real assets are sufficient to meet for herself for her or him to feel good about themselves. And if you look at the who Definition of how, okay, as there will be the body and the mind. So, we doing cosmetic surgery really has a good thing about being feeling good about some thinking, Well, a lot of this stuff being in harmony with your stuff.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So is this stigma like in the US, we have all these crazy TV shows that have been very helpful. And we have those celebrities like the Kardashians, do you have Housewives of Saudi Arabia or Housewives of Beirut? Because that’s really been helpful to do now open up plastic surgery to the masses, not just the elite, not just the rich, but to anybody or everybody who wants to feel good and look good.

Shady Hayek, MD: It is open for everybody. Okay, we do not have those shows that you have– real shows that you have in the United States, they tried a couple of shows, and they didn’t really work well, or at least I don’t know if they work or not. To me. The important thing is that for surgery, surgery is open for So, everybody, not just for the elite. And that we do not really need any more of those TV shows, because social media, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter have made things available for everybody, you don’t need to attend a TV show, you can just calculate, sit around and scroll through the photos before and after, and go into the hands of doctors and see who really fits what you need. So that you can go and choose.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I will say this though, as from a marketing perspective, I think you need to still be everywhere, because the whole world is not on Instagram, OH group are but others are not. And, and it’s very, it’s not even generational. Like, I happen to be into social media because I run a business. Typically, I don’t think I would have been in it because it’s time consuming. But So, I would never know you If I weren’t on social media. And so, you’re always trying to figure out where are the patients? And where are they getting their information? And then be there. So, when it comes to marketing and attracting new patients? Do you have a plan d? Or is it all social media now? I did see you on Instagram, TV. So, you did a live feed. Good for you. So, how are you? How much are you doing on social?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, the signup app, you have to be on social platform, which platform and as you always preach in your, in your consultations and New York emails that you send all over, you cannot just choose one platform and say this is the best, this is where I want to be. You have to be present everywhere, because people are always around people or others are on Twitter, others on Facebook as much as now a big thing here is solidarity. Okay, okay. There are some people on Facebook, there are some people who want to receive an email or read an article in the magazine or see a TV interview. So, you have to be present everywhere. You cannot just choose one platform on one media and say, I this is where I want to concentrate. It doesn’t work like this. Now, the tricky thing about this is some people overdo it. I don’t want to mention names, but some people really overdo it and probably to get some attention or to So, be like an outlier, but I think they are on some alone. I don’t think there is there is a need to do that. And being on social media does not mean being disrespectful to patient does not mean to be disrespectful to your practice. So, there are still norms that you need to follow you So, still need to give the right information in the right way to the patient. And you still need to be educating the people about the real plastic surgery. There are still many people who come to my practice and they have crystal clarity about that. If you think you can change the way they look into investing, they think that plastic surgery does not preserve the natural beauty. And So, I always stand on three, UT and the longest in UT is the natural beauty. If you do anything that is unnatural, even if it is a time right now, after a while, and you kind of want to change again. So being classic, being preserved conservative, and doing the things that will preserve your natural beauty is the right thing to do. And this applies to first, Botox surgeries, whatever you So, are looking for in cosmetic business, this is how you will make it has to preserve your natural beauty cannot meet another person. It doesn’t look natural; it doesn’t look nice. And I always give this example if you see a very nice flower and you draw to it from a distance of five meters, whenever you reach that flower and find that it is not natural it is draw synthetic, it loses its quality, it loses its attractivity and becomes something that you can you can buy over the counter from anywhere. So being unique being natural. This is what makes the person advances. This is what makes the person unique and his own nature and his own nature.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So where would you say the majority of your patients are coming from? Is it the internet? Is it word of mouth is social media? Or do you know because it’s become very difficult to track.

Shady Hayek, MD: It does become difficult to track. But if I were to guess there are two major channels. There’s the social media. And this is this is number two. And number one is the word of mouth is if somebody has good exchange for the precision, and because of that this is the section that I want to learn. But it isn’t worse than this is 100 times stronger message than just filming a video or a photo on any platform.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And you know what? I just wrote another blog post called differentiate or die. And that’s your differentiator. If there are I don’t, we have to talk about the competitive nature of that. But let’s think there are five surgeons in my area. The differentiator is the one that my girlfriend told me about. Like, you don’t need anything else almost unless you’re unless you completely botched the consultation. I draw already came pre sold on you because my girlfriend had what I want done. She looks fantastic. She’s raving about you. That is differentiating as far as I’m concerned as you can get.

Shady Hayek, MD: I brought on ambassadors, those patients to get the word of mouth, there are my ambassadors who are telling others about me and raising the awareness about my practice.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Back to social media, I just want to ask, how much time are you putting into it? Because I am skeptical about that. I know some search engine, you’ve been at the meetings where they say they’re on there, three or four hours a day. And I just think oh dear Lord, like, you’ve had to become marketers, and surgeons and managers and staff and a businessman and there’s a lot on your plate. So how do you how do you figure all that out? Like, what kind of time to put into something like that?

Shady Hayek, MD: That is, you have to be there on their a on a regular basis. Okay, but definitely four hours a day is an exaggeration, even if you’re doing it is an over overdone. And so are you should spend about 10 minutes on my social media today. Unless I have inquiries from patients that that sometimes come on social media that I always answer, but I will I will not say what it is on social media. So, I usually stay on stories what’s happening with me today. Okay. And then my, my designers have personally taken care of designing the course design samples public times a week, and this is it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You have people that help you with that and some of the surgeons don’t understand that yet. They’re trying to do it all themselves. And that’s why there’s so much time on them.

Shady Hayek, MD: [inaudible 34:55] Right.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I think You need to set up systems for how much is you? And how much can you develop a process around? What do we do when somebody? DM me? What do we do when they have a question? I mean, I think you need to set up systems for that, because you cannot be everywhere.

Shady Hayek, MD: I always answer because they need somebody who knows what they’re asking, and the best response to them because they are messaging me. And because they have question one, and many times for all times, it is a medical background. So, for example, what do I need to do? And how to have the surgery? For example? Okay, can I shower today? Or can I separate today? Or what? Whatever. So usually, this is often medical kind of question and the sets of answers. So, don’t let my social media people to answer my patient, or their situation appellant will, we will get to the doctor and get back to you ASAP. As far as the disease design point of view, I always leave it to the person to that person to do the right job. I might give them directions, what’s the message that needs to be highlighted behind that boss? What’s the topic that needs to be discussed during the pause? button? Other than this, anything that’s related to working design–?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Of all the marketing you’ve done throughout the years, what’s like one of the biggest [inaudible 36:42] that you’ve had, or mistakes or just it was just a terrible waste of your time, money or effort?

Shady Hayek, MD: I wouldn’t say there’s any marketing, that’s a waste of your assets, even if it does not have an immediate return on investment, it will have a major return on investment. So, I wouldn’t regret any of the marketing efforts that have done before, but I will I will say that that became more mature over time, where I started to know how patient thinks and tried to So, tailor that message to my marketing. Now, I don’t know if you have an idea about design thinking. So, design thinking instead of creating the item and giving it to the marketing people to So, put the marketing plan for you involve the end consumer from the beginning. So let’s say that I am designing a printer, okay, the way the classical way it used to happen somebody an engineer is to think about what are the features in the telephone, for example, we need a camera we need an audio we need a diet and meet up Okay, and then design the phone and get it out there and work to put a package together to the to the customer so that the customer can be interested in this telephone and by design thinking I informed the customer as the first stage of building the phone, I start by asking the customer What do you need a camera for you need a good audio on the phone, maybe they need a good speaker, maybe they need some Okay, I cannot be So, in the mind of the patient unless I ask them. So, putting that having the input of the customer into the into the design early on, helps you to create a product that appeals to the customer. This is the basic idea on design thinking and how design thinking is a big thing in in almost everything we design from healthcare, to hospitals, to buildings, to cars, to bicycles, cell phones, watches, everything you can think about. And you can involve design thinking in that. And this is one of the major things I learned when I joined MIT and also Harvard med school for the search for leadership. certificate is how to how to look at the what the customer the end user needs in your services. And this has impacted the way I or II advise my marketing people to design their posts. For example, if we say and patients are looking for rhinoplasty If we can start our design by thinking or by trying to find out what does the patient want, which is looking for around, firstly, the shoe or a, for example, a straight nose, nose, small cells. So, if you, if you start highlighting those things for the patient and you design, the way you take your photos and the way you, you highlight your photos, okay? And the message that you are that you’re not under the photos, then then this makes your post more educated, more appealing to the patient, rather than having the patient trying to look at the details that she wants in the photo.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So true, you know, another spin on that I read Richard Branson’s one of his books, and he said, the way I do it, I get the team together, like the way he created the airline. He said, okay, team, or maybe he got consumers. And he said, what do you hate about this experience? And they just chopped it up? You know, and we all have a whole list of complaints about travel. And that’s how he developed something, he took all the complaints and turn them into, okay, this is what we offer the opposite of that. So, I thought that was good, you know, same thing.

Shady Hayek, MD: Actually, there’s a very nice company in the US called [inaudible 41:32] and all we do is design thinking. So, let’s say that you want to reshape the movie theater experience. And so, what they do is that they go, and they start gathering information from the different extremes of the consumers from those who watch movies every day, and from those who do not go to the movie theater at all their life. And they try to gather information, why have this like, open ended questions, and then they synthesize these, these ideas are the information that they so, get put into groups, and then try to look at how we can solve this problem? how can how can we make those go to the movie theater every day? Going every day? What’s he concerned about going there every day? Maybe as having special rules for tickets? For those who are frequent visitors? For example? Okay, then, how can we get those who does not get to the movies? Why? They don’t get through? to people who go to the movies? Why is it movies are too boring? Or is it too much stuff? Are they afraid of, of course, faces, for example? So sometimes you find out things that never occurs to your mind how people would think, and you can only know it by asking the right questions and letting people give them the opportunity to express how you feel about. And this is how you really can tackle the problems that patients are facing in any service or product, and then make it better for them, so that they can use for…

Catherine Maley, MBA: What you’re talking about is very much coming from a growth mindset. So, it sounds like you’re open to learning and growing and adapting. So, you’ve taken some courses, it sounds like are you a big reader? or How are you keeping up in the world of all of this business and marketing? Is there anything you’re doing specifically?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, keeping, keeping yourself updated, and always considering yourself as a student, not as a master. Once you start considering yourself, that you are the master you have, you know, all then this is where you’re from. And as surgeons, we learn this as doctors actually we learn this. Many times, things are done in a certain way for many years, and then the study that comes out and discovered that what you’ve been doing is wrong. And you have to change your mindset 100 degrees and do the other way. I said this incident when I was a student, this was like my freshman year of high school. And that time this was in 1999. Okay, at that time, if used to if you want to get an ACE inhibitor for somebody for education, you need to do a lot of tests make sure that they don’t have any renal problems. Because especially diabetics, because at that time ACE inhibitors were thought to be an issue. Why don’t we feature our graduates from high school and I was an intern? And I had a consultation, consultation for one of my patients. And then I was very happy. And because of the scheme and to prescribe an ACE inhibitor, I was surprised to see wants to do renal service on the station to make sure that they don’t have any problems before they get a sample. And this is all information. Last week, there was a large study in a New England Journal of Medicine that has documented that his numbers are even prophylactic, they are protected for recognition, especially in mathematics. So now we get them as prophylaxis was another article and it really changed things on ATVs. So, fields in medicine are not 31 thing you learn today, can be competing on tomorrow, or you need to do it first for the second day. And this has this means not always available to So, learn. Once you stop learning, you start dying. And I have applied this not only to medicine, I have applied this to my practice. This is why two years ago, I joined MIT for an executive program in general management. And this is why I learned all these things about design thinking and managing and being humble leader. I also tried to use a third-party medic school for the first class that he had for their surgical leadership. certificate, because and this was also another fruitful year, that has made me look differently into those numbers.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So, I do have to ask, you’ve had more adversity than most. And it’s So, big stuff like the uncertainties of politics. You know, a COVID affected all of us, but you seem to have had added on just there’s a lot going on in your part of the world? How do you What’s your why, like what drives you to just keep going no matter what?

Shady Hayek, MD: Well, number one, if you get me funny, 30 years, back in time, I will follow the same footsteps, as done over those years. But I do not regret any of the decisions that I’ve made in my career. And this makes me more passionate about my career and the things that I do, actually, I consider it like, like something that that I love to rather than a job that I have to do. So. So this makes you more and more, it’s [inaudible 47:58] to give more, and to excel more and what to do, right? Because the little stuff as far as getting your money, then one day you’re going to be bored, and you don’t want to do it anymore. I’ve also got my practice or my basic career as in money bringing object, look at this as something that I love to do. So, this is the number one driver in surviving.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And then to wrap it up, the last question is, tell us something we don’t know about you.

Shady Hayek, MD: I’ve told you this before. I’m a family guy. So, I love my family. I also love poetry a lot.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I didn’t know that.

Shady Hayek, MD: I love to play guitar, although I don’t know how to play guitar. But this is one thing that I still need to learn. I’m trying to learn a few steps on my own. But I would love to have professional [inaudible 49:11] and try to learn how to play guitar. Probably everything else you know about me.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that’s really interesting. The poetry and guitar. I didn’t know that for you. Yeah, you see very well balanced. You know, you’ve got your family which you really care about tremendously. I know that and you have your business that you have in perspective. And then you have your interest. So good for you. You have a nice balance there.

Shady Hayek, MD: Thank you.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Alright, thanks so much for being on here with me, Dr. Hayek and I can’t wait to see you again. Are we ever going to be able to travel again?

Shady Hayek, MD: I hope so soon when they get that [inaudible 49:55], things will start to go back to normal and I hope this coverage can be just another seasonal show that we all get–

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Okay. Well, hopefully I’ll see you at a meeting soon. All right. And that’s it for this episode. Thank you so much. And if you enjoyed it, please head over to Beauty and the Biz at iTunes and subscribe so you can keep up on I do these weekly. And then if you want to give me a review, that would be much appreciated. And then if you’ve got any questions or feedback, feel free to leave them on my website at or you can certainly DM at Instagram at catherinemaleymba. Thanks so much and we’ll talk soon.

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Catherine Maley

Catherine is a business/marketing consultant to plastic surgeons. She speaks at medical conferences all over the world on practice building, marketing and the business side of plastic surgery. Get a Free Copy of her popular book, Your Aesthetic Practice: What Your Patients Are Saying View Author Profile.


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