Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD (Ep.173)

Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Camp went from recon to solo practice buildout. I’m your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.

So today’s guest is Dr. Steven Camp. He’s a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon and went from recon to a solo practice buildout in Fort Worth, Texas. Now he received his medical degree from the School of Medicine at Texas Tech University. He did his general surgical residency at Carolina’s Medical Center, his plastic surgery residency at the University of Utah.

And he did a fellowship (before going into solo practice) with somebody I know well, Dr. Daniel Mills out in California, who is the past president of ASAPS, which is now known as the Aesthetic Society. Now, Dr. Camp serves on several aesthetic society committees. He’s a nationally recognized speaker for Sciton Laser Company, a member of the RealSelf ad board, and a member of the advisory board for Allergan Medical Aesthetics.

So Dr. Camp, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.

Steven Camp, MD: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me, Catherine.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. And I know Austin, Texas, but I don’t know. Fort Worth where? What are you close to with your solo practice? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: So, I mean, we’re really close to Dallas, which is kind of how people know the airport, Dallas Fort Worth. And so we’re about 30 miles, 40 miles west of Dallas.

And just about the same amount north from Austin. So we’re very much north central portion of the state of Texas and you know American Airlines actually headquartered in Fort Worth. So yeah, I mean that, that’s kind of where we are. So you can draw a big bubble around the Dallas Fort Worth airport, more within that sphere.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. In regards to going recon to solo practice buildout, actually, I used to be a frequent flyer of, so I know that Dallas Airport very well. But I haven’t traveled much at all since, you know, for a while, like everybody else. So let’s hear your journey, because I believe you started off in Chicago and then you bounced all over the US with your studies and your training, and then you ended up in Fort Worth, Texas.

How did that happen? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I, I, so I was born in Chicago and my, my dad worked for Sears which was, you know headquartered in, in Chicago for many years. And he, he worked in a field where he had to do a lot of international work. And so he spoke Spanish well and did a lot of business with Sears and companies trying to expand into Latin America and in Mexico.

And he ended up meeting my mother who was working for Spanish Consulate at one of these offices when he was on a business trip in New York. And so that romance sparked just via work. And my mom is Colombian, so I’m actually half Colombian by background. She and my dad Started off, you know their life.

In Chicago, that’s where I was born and we, we lived there till I was a young boy, but ultimately we moved down to Texas and for the most part, I, I grew up in San Antonio. Gotcha. And did college and undergrad in the state of Texas just like a good old Texas boy. And then once I started matching into surgical residencies I was fortunate to match into the hospitals.

I really liked where I interviewed and so for general surgery, I really fell in love with North Carolina. And that’s where I met my wife Sarah. And then from there we headed west to, to Utah. And then we spent time obviously with my old boss, Dr. Mills and Laguna Beach, which was wonderful experience.

And when that was all done, we decided to come back to Texas. So we actually live about three streets over for my wife’s parents and Oh, nice. So that’s kind of what brought us all the way back around here, full circle. So that’s kind of the route. And so we just went one step out of a time. It wasn’t the anything specific or planned and then all worked out.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Great. And did you go straight from recon to solo practice buildout after fellowship or how did you set up shop?

Steven Camp, MD: I did. I, I, when I left fellowship, I actually joined a, a private practice. It was already existing with two other plastic surgeons. So we, we had a small plastic surgery group of three surgeons and I did that for about four and a half years.

And as I started kind of to cultivate kind of I guess my areas of interest in plastic surgery I became more focused on the aesthetic side of surgical treatments, especially body contouring and breast surgery. And decided I wanted to kind of create, you know, my own independent practice to cater to those patient needs maybe a little bit better.

And so about five years ago, I, I went independent and my wife and I started that practice ourselves with one other clinical nurse. And so was a solid, beefy team of three people. And, you know, we’ve, we’ve grown it from there over the last five years. And so we stayed very committed and dedicated to aesthetics.

Which at, at first was a scary leap, but it, it just matched our interest. And what we wanted to be able to do was focus and really give the attention to those patients so that we could deliver not only excellent surgical quality, but kind of attentive pre and postoperative care in a way that hospital settings.

Emergency call can be interruptive to. And so that’s what we’ve done. And been just really happy with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? In regards to going recon to solo practice buildout, in today’s world with the insurance the way it is, I just don’t see how you can juggle both very well. I think you can do it, it’s just not very well because the insurance side will take up all of your focus and time and effort in your solo practice.

It’s demanding as heck when you’re in a solo practice. And then the, the cosmetic kind of fits in where it can and very difficult to toggle between the two. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: I think you’re exactly right. And I think, you know in that situation it is very helpful to kind of be able to have a focus within your practice so that you understand the procedures that you’re doing and what those needs are.

And then also the business side of it, which quite frankly, no one learns well in training. So we learned the process of evaluating patients, diagnosing and treating them and then caring for them not only during their acute surgical phase, but well after that. And that really is the scope of what we learned.

And then after that you know, it just kind of expected that you would be doing enough to kind of take care of employees and pay an office building and. Cover a lot of business expenses that aren’t seen, especially when you’re an employee at a university hospital. So private practice is a, is a totally different animal and it was all very much on job training.

And I think that as you know I think that’s probably a common refrain amongst many of us in our space, both plastic surgeons, dermatology and other people that are committed to aesthetics. It really is the practice of taking care of your patients, but then it’s also. Entire business to run as well.

And both are full-time jobs. And they can be a lot of fun. But there’s certainly a lot to learn. And to tell my wife that we just became accidental entrepreneurs because we, to figure out what we wanted to do with the, the scope and the scale of the business. And we’re still learning that.

And so I, I learned this from one of my surgical teachers in residency and said, you know, one of the great things is that, you know, if you’re paying attention every day is a school day. There’s always something to learn. And, and that’s true .

Catherine Maley, MBA: And you’ll really learn about yourself. You know, you really learn, like, do you have any interest at all in running a solo practice business? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

You know are you okay with accounting or talking with the legal people or, you know, there’s so much more to it than you realize when you get into it, but frankly, most people wouldn’t even get into running their own businesses if they knew what went into it. In regards to going recon to solo practice buildout, so probably naivety is your, is your friend at that point.

So when you, I, I love to hear how you started the private solo practice. Did you rent space? Did you go all out and, and build a building? How, what did you do in regards to going recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I, I was in an, an interesting situation where I had joined an established practice and had an office and other You know, patterns of, of managing flow of patients and clinic space already established.

And then I had to uproot that and start all over again. And so that started with trying to find a space. And in the window of time between my decision to leave the group practice I was with and start my own practice, I had to figure out what that would look like in terms of an office setting and where my patients would be seen and where I would do surgical procedures and how I would manage all different kinds of things, including the accounting and the legal entity in corporation.

And of course, there was a huge loan. And so it was, it is, it was overwhelming. And but I think one of the things is, is that there was a vision about what we wanted to have our practice look like. And so we, we went back to square one and then you know, I just said, you know, we got to focus on one thing at a time and just treat them like dominoes.

And so using that my, my wife and I talked and we met with other people that were in the business world that had nothing to do with plastic surgery and banking and accounting, and said, Well, you know, what, what does it take? We ask people, you know, what does it take to open a restaurant? What does it take to open a hotel?

My wife’s family was involved in publishing and we asked, you know, what do people do in, in the publishing industry and in newspapers? And so there was a lot that we gleaned from. How do you want to write the business plan? And so I would say that the first thing you have to have in mind is what is it that you do that’s great or an individual unique skill?

And then talk about how you do that because a lot of people don’t know how somebody makes sushi or what’s involved in creating a hotel space or a car dealership, right? And so but people who do that in their industries and people like us in aesthetic surgery understand our services. And so we wrote that stuff down and we, we created a blueprint and a flow for these are our skills and then how are we going to deliver them?

And then we created a patient flow, and then we created a volume and we assigned a volume to that patient flow. And that built a projected revenue cycle. And so, like I said, I didn’t know any of this by residents here by training, and some of it I gleaned from different areas and books. One book I would be completely remiss if I didn’t mention by name was a book called Traction by Gina Whitman.

And a lot of people that start off on this pathway I think run into that book at some point. And it talks about how to think about your business and it talks about how to build around that and put the right people in the right seats. And so that was something that was new and foreign to me. And we rolled all that stuff up into a business plan and then, Ask people what we would need.

And I took as much as they would give me . And then with that, I tried to spend as little as I could out of the gate. And, and that was very, very challenging. Because there is that uphill climb where you’re being busy, you’re, you’re doing things and the bills have gone out, but accounts receivable haven’t come back in, and it all ends up being okay, but you don’t know it’s going to be okay.

Until that happens. And so you feel a little bit like you’re rolling a ball up the hill and you’re getting close up to it, and then every day at the end of the day, the ball rolls all the way back down to the bottom again. But you know, so those are the things I think that we learned.

And I, I think that what we, we figured out is, is that there’s all these different categories and we had to learn what the categories are, and we had to learn how to be more organized. And then we had to learn where we were going to spend our time, what skills we had, and what skills we didn’t have.

And so that helped us hire a phone person and helped us focus on the clinical nurse. And then as volume grew, we needed people that could coordinate with our surgery, planning, the calendar, the patients and collections. And so all of a sudden, three people grew to five and then to seven, then to nine, and then to 11 as, as the volume of work expanded in that direction.

And so I think the first thing was understanding our business and then understanding you know, a value assignment to things that we did. And then from that just being logical and saying, Here’s what we think we can generate. When you start off out of residency, that’s very difficult and you just have to kind of assume and try and understand market values in your geographical territory.

In my case at least, I had the benefit of, of four years of practice, albeit not on my own but at least an understanding of on an average, you know, month and a quarter and then year what I could do in terms of volume of cases. And so that was particularly helpful.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Were you going to stay in reconstructive when you went out on your own? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Were you still going to do recon and dabbling cosmetic, or did you jump and just go, That’s it. I’m doing cosmetic now in regards to going recon to solo practice buildout.

Steven Camp, MD: No. You know, I think that when I first started I had a very broad practice e everything from facial trauma and, and injuries and burns to breast cancer and facial cancer and tumor reconstruction with a mixture of some cosmetic surgery.

How did that work out? And it worked great, you know, and I mean, for the most part I made myself available and tried to take care of, like I said, one domino at a time. And I’m, I’m probably going to sound really repetitive because I think that’s probably the thing I learned the most is, is that you can only do what’s in front of you.

Your mind will tend to wander. And the better you can focus, the more efficient you can be, and the more you can actually do and more of that at a high level. So that, that’s kind of what I did. And then eventually breast cancer reconstruction became a, a steady stream of, of referral to me and developed some relationships.

And so when I spent the first two, three years of my practice, I, I narrowed things down from everything to basically breast cancer and, and cosmetic surgery. And then as, as time went on there was kind of a decision to make because both required a significant amount of, of time and demands and the, the patients I mean, I think deserved you know, quality, undivided attention and ultimately made the decision that our volume and capacity for growth and ability to manage life and a schedule was better in the aesthetic arena.

And so we chose that and committed to that hardcore about three years ago. And so I think it was a gradual process. And so there was, you know, certainly an intersection of that being my interest. I did plastic surgery residency, like everyone that does plastic surgery. But then in addition to that, I did an aesthetic dedicated fellowship to further home certain specific skills and Take on a, a few little extras, if you will, both surgically and non-surgically.

And I feel like that made a difference for me early in my practice, allowed me to fast track high quality results to my patients. And then that became, you know, understood and passed around via word of mouth. And so there was my interest and then also then there’s just what ends up happening.

So there’s, there’s parts, passion and parts your practice picks you as well. So and I think I could have fallen into other things such as breast reconstruction. But it just so happened that that this is the way it worked out and I’ve never looked back. I’ve been really happy with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So when you went out on your own and you were still doing recon (before going from recon to solo practice buildout), were you doing it at hospitals, at a surgery center or at that point had you built your own or? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, and you know, and, and I’m still in that world.

So yeah, I definitely used hospital based facilities and hospital owned surgical centers. And there’s certain cases in the immediate cancer setting in some of the larger tumor type cases that were in the hospital. And then there was different stages of care that were in outpatient surgical center.

And so it was possible to blend both early on at first. But then it became more and more difficult. And now 100% of the things I do is, is for the most part you know, surgical center based. They’re all hospital owned surgical centers. But that’s, that’s the nature of it. And generally speaking, outpatient surgery.

And in that process, you know there’s shared facilities, shared overhead, and that’s nice and it’s also reduced risk. But I also think that there’s less ability to control the environment, right? And in particular with scheduling and discretion and to a certain extent Kind of clarity on instrumentation and personnel that might shuffle between different surgical services, whether it be orthopedics, plastic surgery, or general surgery.

So it became clear to me that I really wanted a, a very focused, dedicated team with you know, quieter, more discreet, pre and postoperative areas. Low traffic and easy access. And when you go to a, you know, a place that might have 10, 14, 15 operating rooms, there’s many different patients there.

And so it became clear to me that if I could control that it would provide unique value and elevate the experience for patients. And so that started the pathway that my wife and I had of, well, It doesn’t really exist, and we don’t know that anyone’s going to cater to these specific needs because we are just one surgeon out of 20.

So I think we needed to do it ourselves. And I think you know, like, like all good business questions, you know, you, you start with a good question. And the answer on what to do is always, it depends. And I think for us, it, it depended on what we wanted to do more than what was, you know, quote unquote the best thing to do or the smartest thing to do.

Certainly there’s, I think, some degree of risk that we’re taking on. And certainly we’re starting over that process just like we did with opening our own practice with a business plan and new financial arrangements. And then, and on top of that, the real estate side of life and the kind of Quality assurances, inspections that go into normal office building versus surgical suites.

And then there’s a whole set of rules and templates that go onto that there. But I think our experience with our private practice gave us, I think, enough courage to say that we’re going to do this because it’s what we want to do. And so you know, I think there’s a great saying, you know, if there’s not necessarily that job out there that exists, that’s perfect for you.

So if, you know you want to have the job that you’ve dreamt about created creative, and I think that’s very much entrepreneurial 1 0 1. And, and so, so what did you do?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you buy a building and build it out for your solo practice? What did, what did you do? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: We bought land. And so we bought, we bought an empty plot of land. I can, I can actually see it from the office I’m in right now, Uhhuh.

Cause it’s adjacent to the medical office building that I’m, I’m in. Nice. And so we looked around town and, and trying to find a place that would work that would still be centrally located to where current patient base was, where our life was. And, and we happened to find one right next to the building that I’m in.

And so we went through the real estate process and built on to what was now you know accounting team and a legal team that we’d had experience with during our practice and added a real estate team. And then with that team, they, they gave us guidance on architects and builders. And we interviewed, you know, four or five different construction groups and several different architects.

And whittled that down from four or five to two. And then ultimately partnered with a development company that’s been instrumental in a lot of project planning and oversight. And, and I think that’s the key takeaway. You can’t write it all down in a booklet or organize a timeline in a calendar and get every single thing in terms of regulation, accounting, legal building, and organize it on your own.

But you need to know that you’re not going to know everything. And then you need to know that you can’t be everywhere. And so learning how to expand and to delegate is based on effort, due diligence, but then ultimately that leads to trust. And you have to trust certain components and allow that to happen.

And if people are passionate about what they do there, there’s a goal, there’s a, there’s a vision attached to what you’re doing then you can start setting guideposts for yourself goals, if you will, and then tackle those again, same way, one domino at a time. So we happened to find our property and get going on our construction, and then there was this thing called, and so, you know, it’s added timeline and some delays and stress.

I mean, I think that for our practice, we definitely were. Sidelined, I would say for a good three months, just in our current office. And so all of that translated into other downstream effects with our build project, which has been about a three year process. Oh wow. So what’s the ETA on the new building?

Tell me. August 26. It’s August, Yeah. 24 days.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh gosh. That explains, Cause I was thinking I saw your solo practice on Instagram you were looking for surgical staff and I’m thinking… How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: We are, we’re hiring and, and so, and, and I, you know, I think that’s nicely into a lot of different things. It’s like, you know I’ll have, you know, people in our space, some, you know, Younger years and experience and more, but trying to tackle same ideas.

You know, who do you hire and when and do you want to build your own surgical center and, and how, what does that look like? And I don’t think that there’s any specific one way, but we’re trying to slowly build out a team and, and do that. And so yeah, we’re, we’re adding clinical personnel. That includes recovery room nurses.

We partner with an anesthesia group that’s going to help us with that anesthesia core that we’ll need for our surgical center. And it’ll be two operating rooms. And so ideally we’ll invite other surgeons in the community that, that need access and are, are committed to that same idea of you know, high quality high convenience.

And I think it’s going to be great because I feel like a lot of people that are in our plastic surgery world feel the same way. They want an area that feels like it’s focused to procedures that aren’t every day for other surgical centers, whether it be a facelift or whether it be, you know, complex liposuction with bad transfer.

So sometimes the equipment needs, they’re just slightly different. And then the room set up can be monitored so it’s more comfortable for both patient and surgeon. And I think that when you borrow Places that are, are designed for 98% of the other surgery that goes on in this world.

That’s what you run into. You run into certain things that create access restrictions that just limit efficiency. You know, you always can work around them. There’s never anything different and that’s the way it’s always been. But I think that’s been the most energizing part is to feel like we are going to have that level of control all the way from entry to exit and the, and the patient experience.

And so, and when you turn that over to any kind of third party it’s nice that someone else takes care of it and it’s off your plate, but it’s also frustrating when you can’t control exit and arrival and departure times and discretion maybe to the level that you want to.

Catherine Maley, MBA: What I hear over and over again from surgeons is it was a pain in the neck to develop the darn thing and go into solo practice. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

The, the thing that saved them was having a killer nurse or somebody who really knew that surgical world to run that thing like a military operation for a solo practice that was very helpful and it, it was not the profit center that they thought it was going to be. However, the convenience and the efficiency of it was priceless.

That’s what I hear, in regards to going recon to solo practice buildout.

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I, I think I’ve heard exactly the same thing. And to be honest I don’t know that it will be profitable or even cost money. And, you know I, I think that for most people they say it’s a break even, Right. And it creates enhanced convenience. And, you know, the response I would have to that is, is.

If you’re not spending any extra, you know overhead that you’re not returning back to yourself, but you’re becoming more efficient, then you’re just enabling yourself to do more volume of cases and capitalize off things in that way. So when you take all of the moving parts, like you said, you need a very highly skilled motivated, independent leader of those surgery centers.

And I feel like we’ve really found one that’s great. So I’m excited about that. And that was actually our first most important hire for the new surgery center is an OR director. And, and they’re taking a very lead role in interviewing recovery room nurses, circulators. And so it’s become a very team effort.

And it, it, it allows us to do a lot of different things and we’re allowing ourselves to have access to interview nurses in different people while I’m operating somewhere else. And then we can all convene and with the interruption of covid, we’ve all kind of learned how to zoom and do other things so we can really catch up and, and do a lot of things kind of in parallel that we didn’t use to do because they were just weren’t traditional business practice.

At least not for us. And so we’ve kind of borrowed some of those, some simple survival tactics and business hacks from Covid and tried to integrate that into this. And then I think. You know, the thing that we learned early on is we couldn’t do all of our own accounting. We certainly didn’t know the law, the legal ins and outs of what’s required for different things.

And so we, we learned, you know, how to find people that we thought we could trust and, and delegate appropriately. And, you know, it’s never perfect, but I think it’s the only way to go. And I think that it is impossible. You are rolling that ball up the hill by yourself. If you do it by yourself and then you, you have to, you have to figure out how to build a team.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And would you say that your biggest solo practice challenge just staff and trying to build team building, would you say that’s your biggest challenge? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: It is.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Any solo practice tips, Any tips on that one? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yes. I think number one is, is mostly patience with, with yourself. Because there’s, there’s all these moments where you, you lean back on things that you did and you go, Okay, I want to do this differently.

And then you try something differently and it creates a different set of new challenges that you hadn’t anticipated because you just didn’t know. And so number one is to be patient. And then I think the second thing is to try and understand how all this stuff works and I came across this as well and my, my trying to learn about business and what made people successful is people talk about finding the right situation, or I need to find my right job in life, or I need to find my right partners or my coworkers.

And I think it’s really about development versus discovery, right? So people feel like they’re separated from their perfect life, their perfect house or perfect job, maybe their perfect relationship, whatever the case may be. And they spend a lot of time talking about what’s not right. Maybe, you know, their coworkers or not buying into the culture.

And, and so very rarely do people lead with this is where I need to develop myself. And so it begins with self-development and then, I translate that into what we want to do in our office. And we have people that have been with us for the entire time. That started from my own practice where they started as front desk, and now one of them is one of my two co-patient coordinators.

Oh. So her skills evolved in their time with us because she sought it out and, and we allowed it. And I’ve been in places where people hang on to the idea that someone’s good at front desk, we have that, we don’t want to disrupt that, so let’s not rock the boat. Problem with that is, is, is that it creates the potential for any employee.

And the leader to get stagnant. And so if there’re always a level of development you’re trying to move them along to phases where you’re moving on to, you’re the boss and they work for you. And the relationship is based on permission and hierarchy. And then as time goes on, you can get to know what that person’s strengths are, what their interests are.

We had another person was in our front office and told us after a year that she loved skincare and wanted to go to aesthetician school and didn’t know how to do it. So we worked out a way to send her to aesthetician school. Nice. And that cut her hours away from being a full time employee. And then we had to figure out how to hire a second phone person and how she would cover.

Her tuition because she wanted to do it desperately, but financially needed resource assistance. And so she could have stayed working in front desk and we could have stayed isolated in a relationship defined by permission. I’m the boss, she gets paycheck from me. But the, the relationships both with my patient coordinator and now my new aesthetician are ones I didn’t have when I started four years ago.

And they’re valuable employees with loyalty and they’re people that I know well beyond a technical skill and hopefully they know that about me as well. And so that ability to develop each other I think is what I’ve learned. And I’ve tried to use that as the fulcrum for how I’m going to be able to move forward.

I don’t know what the next two years holds exactly. I don’t know what seven years from now looks like exactly, but I do know that I’ll need to kind of continue to enhance and develop my own skills as a leader as a physician, as a surgeon and that, you know, when things get a little bit stressful, tap into that resource of how am I developing myself within the office and are there talents in the office that I’m not tuned into or paying attention to?

And I think that would be maybe the biggest learning that I’ve had. So it’s nearly 10 years of post-residency life now for me. And I think it is incredibly simple, but for some reason I never distilled it into the idea of development versus looking for the right position.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You already said it earlier, you create it, it takes so much maturity to get to that point, because when you’re younger, you’re looking at the external world saying, So what do you have for me in regards to going recon to solo practice buildout?

And you’re looking around, so where’s the solo practice answer? And you realize, Oh, I get it. I have a vision in my head and I go out and make it happen. Right? There’s nothing simple about that, but that it’s all about creating, not finding. Gosh, that’s a big deal. So it sounds like I going to plan are to, but it sounds like you bring in a partner, just bring in the outside surgeons to do some in your surgical location.

Is that the point? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I think I love the idea of having a partner and I think that I’m still trying to figure out what my business looks like for me. Much less try and tell somebody else that they’re going to join some situation that’s going to be great and perfect for them.

So kind of answer that question. I do have somebody that’s going to come and share the office building I’m going be in. And, and we evaluated that concept of a, of a formal partnership and having him join the practice and the difficulty in evaluating their independent desires for clinic and available office space and phone personnel versus.

There are salary demands and overhead requirements everywhere else became a blocking point. Yeah. And I’m sensitive to that because in, in many ways I lived through that myself as, as a young surgeon leaving training, joining an established practice, which was very fortunate to learn from. And it, it, it helped me understand a lot of different concepts about the overhead that another person brings into the office.

And so our discussions led to a mismatch and where. Certain overhead needs would be relative from my point of view and that person’s point of view. And so we just agreed to work together. And so we’re going to not, you know, worry about losing patients via a, a website lead or a phone inquiry because of who staff is there that day or, or things of that nature.

But at the same token we’re going to work together to build the infrastructure. The experience for patients is very much unified and the same. But the bank accounts are separate. And if he wants to take six weeks of vacation and I want to take eight, that’s okay. And his own, his own independent practice and website and employees.

But at the same token it’s something that I envision being, you know, long and lasting working relationship and. You know, ultimately we, we, we want the, the building, the practice and the infrastructure to grow in its value. And I think that that allows for people to partner together in something that has the value to it that is asset assigned.

And I think that there’s a lot of difficulty in defining what a medical practice or an aesthetic surgical practice is worth when you just take a revenue norm, right? Because the same procedure may have different fees charged and different abilities and volumes on an annual basis from one surgeon to the next, and not necessarily is a discerning mark on quality, but it just makes the potential for there to be a mismatch on what one revenues assigned purchase value is.

May not mean the same thing in a, in another person’s real worlds experience and you’re overpay or underpay.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But learning that now (in solo practice) versus getting into a partnership and getting all legal and then finding that out, you’re so much better off now. Just you already have figured it out, in regards to going recon to solo practice buildout. Like, you know what?

We’re going to run our own thing. You know it’s going to run their own thing. We’re going to share resources and we’ll leave it at that. I think that’s a brilliant idea, quite frankly. Yeah. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And I, I think that it, it, it takes a while to figure out what you want your own rhythm to be. Right. And I think there are people that I know, great friends that are in groups of four, five, or even six plastic surgeons.

And it, it matches everybody’s ethos. And everybody’s okay with that structure. And, and that works. But for a lot of us, I would say probably 90% of us we have a very independent mindset Yeah. About what we want. And sometimes what we’re doing for three or four years can change. And so having that flexibility is very important.

And not feeling either. Beholden to a certain financial restraint or held back because of, you know, being ultra conservative or risk averse is also important. So having that freedom is, is very important and I think it keeps people happy. And I think you can figure that out. You don’t have to figure that out by hiring a partner and a young associate out of the gate.

I think that that’s certainly an option. And that’s how I came in. And I, I would say that the more clearly defined you can make that on ramp the better it is for all parties involved. So there’s not the potential for score keeping and wondering if somebody should be in a better situation either via time, via financial resources.

Or, you know, freedom to pursue their creative interests because of a, a practice, a built in practice restraint. So it, it, it is highly complicated but I think that either one can work. But when, when I’m at my current associate, it was clear to me that the ability to control certain aspects of his office and patient flow just like it is to me was very important, right?

And, and so within that, we’re giving each other space to explore that, do it in the environment that best suits us, and then ultimately our patients. So I think that will lead to the, the best relationship in that, in that way. And we’ll see where this takes us and maybe more people will come.

I mean, so Fort Worth’s not far from one of the largest airports in the world. A lot of people move here every year.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, from, from California where I’m at.

Steven Camp, MD: A lot of, lot of Californians are coming and so there will be more people coming and more opportunity and, and, and we might find that we had so much fun doing this.

We want to do it again in a few years. But let’s see.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So I know your wife is very active in your solo practice. Any dips on that? Because I’ve seen it go all sorts of different ways. How, how does that work out in your practice? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Mostly great because you know she is the better half. But I would say that you have to u understand what’s that relationship like and for, for my wife.

And for me it gives us energy to think about work together. And that’s not always the case. I, I know that there’s a lot of couples I know in plastic surgery or in other professions in life where when work’s over, they want to unplug and talk about something else. Whether it’s outdoors, whether it’s art, whether it’s sports and that they, they want to compartmentalize in that way.

And I think if that is inherently the situation, it does create a little bit of oil and water friction that doesn’t need to be there. That makes it hard to want to stay committed to the, to the work project. And then at the same time, it also, you know, contaminates the, the out of work environment.

And so I think that that’s the, the council is just to try and figure out your personality. And for my wife and I, we started off thinking we would never want to work together. Her background was in cardiac surgery. We met when I did general surgery training, and then ultimately she stayed in cardiac surgery world until I decided I needed to go on my own.

And I needed a nurse and She was willing to take my best offer, . And so, so it became you know, something we identified via necessity. We didn’t know it. And so five years later it’s still this. And she became very, very hungry and passionate about things. Like the accounting side of things.

She became a student of marketing, right? She became very intrigued with the, the concept of social media and a website built. And for a lot of days after long day in the operating room. Those tasks are a drag. And when I get to go home and think about them with my best friend and sometimes over a glass of wine, it expands our creative juices, it expands our work hour potential.

And for us, it makes us feel connected. So even though we work in the same office, it’d be eight to 10 hours where I’m in the operating room and she’s somewhere else. And so it, it allows us to, it’s essentially our baby. You know, we will get to work on the same thing together. And it’s, it’s, it’s the thing we both have to do out of out of work necessity.

And, and within that we found a new commonality a new layer of depth to our relationship that wasn’t there before we started working together. And so that’s why it works for us. When it’s another layer that adds depth to what you’re doing, then you can work with your spouse. When it creates conflict then you have to.

Be aware of why that is, and doesn’t mean you can’t work together at all. It just means you might have to be aware of what capacity creates the trouble.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I have found that it’s really important to have boundaries with each other. Yeah. Like you do the solo practice surgery, she does the marketing, you do what you do Well, she does, she does well. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

I have found that that seems to be the easiest way to go about that. But it’s also helpful not to have that kind of wife that like pops in in her yoga outfit and, you know, says hi to the staff and how’s it going and how you do, what are you guys doing? And then leaves again, that causes a lot of havoc, often in practices because then the wife is this part-time fluttering around kind of thing.

And your wife looks very intelligent and committed and I mean, I think she’s, she’s doing it the right way. Just if you wanted make 2 cents.

Steven Camp, MD: Well, I mean that’s definitely anyone who knows me well knows that’s the secret to any success we have. And I mean, I think I’m. Pretty good at being a worker B.

But definitely that there’s the whole world outside of this and I think when people try and do it alone, that’s a huge problem. And then obviously, how do you find the right ways to build people? I was lucky that my wife was kind of there and built in and, and for us and our personalities, it works.

I will say boundaries are important, but I will say that I have learned that and she has learned that both of us have boundaries that aren’t necessarily static. And so I would say it’s a little bit more like counterbalancing. And so there’s moments where we start tipping over in one direction and then we have to kind of auto correct.

And so boundaries are a part of that, you know, when you dip in and when you dip out. And patience is a part of that. So, you know, sometimes you have to knowingly let the other person dip in and know that you will too. But then, you know, there, there does come times where you have to make a lion sand and, and create that boundary that, that you created.

So for us that’s it. It’s, it’s, it’s a constant dance. And I wish it was as easy as everything that we drew up on a set play, but we’re, we’re just kind of going with the flow.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I’ve also noticed though, that you have a nice emphasis on surgical as well as nonsurgical. And can you just talk about your med spa? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

You gave it a name you put some effort into it. What’s, what’s the plan there?

Steven Camp, MD: You know, I think that plastic surgery was very surgery focused for a long period of time, and I think technology has brought a lot to the field of plastic surgery and improved outcomes for patients and in that space non-surgical services, the injectables skin treatments, lasers fat reduction have all blossomed in that ecosystem.

And it’s I think successful people in aesthetics and in plastic surgery understand connection with patients and not every patient wants surgery. And sometimes maybe they want surgery later. And so I think that plastic surgery when I first was in my residency training, there would be a lot of debates with patients wanting something that was more lasting, maybe a more significant procedure with downtime, but a lasting effect versus something that’s kind of quick in and out but doesn’t give you the same quote unquote durability.

And then at what point do you assign bang for the buck or value? And I think that was the debate and I can’t remember the last time that was a nonstop concern for my patients most of the time. Now it’s about timing. Do I want to do both these things together? Do I want to phase into this over the next five years and then consider surgery or maybe not at all.

And so it’s become part of the continuum for patients. And I like to tell patients and people that I talked about this, well, I think it used to be surgical and nonsurgical kind of either or, right? And I think now it’s better together. And so and my practice has 40 to 50% of its financial revenue now comes from nonsurgical activities.

And it used to be 5% Good for you. Nice. Nonsurgical. And, and that’s just because patients have grown up with us and then new patients are learning about us. And so we just have a larger funnel and we collect people from TW 20 to 70, 20 to 80. And then slowly you start gathering more people in different.

Compartments where maybe Botox alone in some skincare is what they want, or maybe they’re 70 and they really, really want a facelift. And so the, the growth of our practice and connection to patients has led to that. 80% of my patients and are, are still moms. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, and to a certain extent even more than that, like, you know, if you consider, you know, grandmoms, but it’s the moms of the moms that have come in and asked about facial stuff and that’s grown.

And then, you know, the. Kids that were younger on, these moms that we took care of eight, 10 years ago are now in college and wanting skincare. And so we’ve, you know, grown with that. And now our nonsurgical services expanded to meet that. So within my office, we have basically a nonsurgical arm. But I consider just part of my aesthetic treatment for patients kind of, you know, the, the rejuvenation on the younger patients in their twenties and then, you know, maintenance and then rejuvenation.

And then after rejuvenation they stay on the maintenance train. And so that’s allowed us to have a connection to patients. You know, term that used to float around I don’t hear very much anymore was patients for life. And so we, we’ve embraced that concept in the office. And that’s allowed us to think about what would we want for ourselves, our family members.

And so, you know, a perfect example of that is the Cyan laser. Everything we do is connected to skin. Everything. I do have a potential aging change on the skin or an incision area. And the flexibility of that platform to treat skin, take care of it and treat incision lines has been a real game changer.

And I feel like it’s done something new and elevated for patients in my practice that I wouldn’t be able to do just as a surgeon. And so I think that those things have, have made it where it was. And then I’ve gotten involved with Orange Twist, which is another med spa separate as a different entity from my practice.

Yeah, so Orange Twist. And you know, one of my mentors Dr. Stevens, and I thought it was his, I thought Stephens Orange Yeah. Who had been involved with HydraFacial and other companies for years came up with the concept of you know creating access to nonsurgical services in a non-intimidating way.

And, and I think we’re now seeing. Explode. I mean, I think that there’s many different quote unquote chains of med spas if you want to call them that across the country in Orange Twist is definitely, you know, at the table in that space and in, in that discussion. And we’re one of the newer entries in, in terms of you know, having been around for a few years.

And then, you know, Covid interrupted California as a state, maybe more, as intensely as any place. And so there’s 16 centers or so nationwide with Orange Twist, and 10 of them happened to be in LA and Orange County. Right. So I, I was fortunate to be early in on the, the idea of this med spa where we would basically take these services where people would have.

High impact, minimal downtime, and be able to integrate things like Botox and HRA facial and nonsurgical services into their lifestyle without having to go to a medical doctor’s office. And so that’s the, the, the concept and the premise. And it’s been a lot of fun and it’s, it, it creates a different space that is solely focused on, on all the things in the world that we can do that’s non-surgical that allows them to be treated quickly and, and kind of more in their neighborhood.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Outside of the medical district model of Orange, is it the of scale, you’re just a much bigger buying power, so you’re getting supplies for a lot less than if you were on your own? Or are they giving you also marketing plans? Are they branding you are for, get that hanging around or being connected to grant students? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Well, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t know that I, I, I look at it that way. I, I think that there’s a huge area for growth in nonsurgical services for sure that exceeds the growth potential for surgical services. And then, so, and what are we going to do to tap into that growth potential? And you want to reduce friction.

And so parking in a doctor’s office that may have 15 stories and a, a parking deck and several layers to go through in a waiting room of surgical and non-surgical patients for an eight minute Botox appointment becomes a drag, becomes absolute drag. And so the orange Twist itself, just like any large company I’m certain has purchasing power, has other things, but that’s all behind the scenes.

For me, it was a way to continue to grow and to stay on the leading edge of access to what patients were interested in and be able to extend services and care to them. And without creating that, that quote unquote drag of the doctor’s office it’s the same reason that I think I eventually became motivated to build my own surgery center.

So I think that had I never gotten involved with Orange Twist, I wouldn’t have really expanded my horizons and thought about how I could change that part. I would’ve just accepted the fact that surgery happens at the surgery center and the office thing happens at the office. And been very binary in that thinking.

And so it became very appealing to me because it opened my eyes to something again that was very business centric but about consumer understanding. And so our consumer growth, our access in the aesthetic space is going to have huge influence from the non-surgical world. And we want to reduce friction and we want to make that easy for our clients.

And then for my postsurgical clients, I want to make it easy for them too. So if I can put an orange twist that’s, you know, three minutes from their neighborhood and not 25 minutes into the medical district, why not? And why not expand that footprint and grow that? Learn from it and be able to do more.

And so I think that is what appealed to me about it. So coaching, I don’t know that it’s going, you know, lead to some huge great windfall, but for me, the, the, the ability to talk to people like Dr. Stevens and Clint Cornell and other medical directors that are involved and. Work with other nurse practitioners, PAs, and estheticians.

It has enriched my experience as a, as a leader for my practice. And so for me it’s the relationships. And I, I hope, I hope financially it does well, . Okay. But that, that was that, that was the hook. And so that’s kind of been part of it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: What is the hook? The part where you get to now you have relationships with people who have been there, done that. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

So your learning curve is much less than had you had to do it on your own. Is that the point?

Steven Camp, MD: I think that there’s a component to that. Okay. But no, it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s about, you know, any kind of thing, any kind of relationships. I think that, you know, you look at the aesthetic society as a whole and people do, I think benefit.

From relational interaction with peers in, you know, having ability to kind of set aside different ways to reflect, think, you know, both backward and forward was what the appeal was. And, and certainly because of what we talked about. The explosion and consumer demand for nonsurgical services outpaces that of surgery.

That’s where the opportunity is.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I had Dr. Stevens on my podcast during COVID because it’s the only time I can get a hold of the guy. You know, when he had his, when he, like all of us were sitting still, you know, that was, felt very helpful. And he, at that point, he had already had maybe five locations and I just, I’m, I’m so fascinated with the business model of that, but you know, we are running out of time.

Let’s keep going cause I want to talk about your branding. Your last name is camp. You’re very good at using that with the happy campers. And you have the and then you had the bow tie, The bow tie Babes. So tell me, what was that, what was behind that and has that been helpful to have some of that differentiating branding for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think we just, we’re just like, well, you know, who are we and how are we going to share that story? And so the, you know, camp just comes from, it’s an easy way for people to remember who they are seeing and who they’re interacting with, right? And so and we, we want people when they come see us for a surgery, nonsurgical services to be happy.

We, we, we want to improve the quality of life. I don’t think that, you know, a tummy tuck or a face lift is going to necessarily make anyone live longer. But it might make those years much better. And we all want nice things in life. We all want things like clothing or our housing environments to be comfortable to us and to be reflective of our internal style and some capacity and aging impacts that.

And so when I can make somebody happy, I tell people I have a couple requirements I want them to, to really look good. And so, and that’s a barometer. And we have photography and we have beauty standards, and we have, Here’s what’s possible with surgeon, what’s not possible with surgery. All that’s very much true, but there’s an emotional component to that too.

And that’s part of what dictates success in aesthetic surgery is obviously you have to start with, you know, the right patient. So you have to have a good patient candidate and it has to be quality, technical procedure. And then it. It has to hit a certain mark, it has to make them feel a certain way.

So I tell patients if they look good and they feel good, then they’re going to be happy campers. And that one just stuck. And it was just an extension of my last name. It was just simple. It was right there in front of me. It was not meant to be complicated but it was meant to be fun. And I think it’s nice that you can associate that with the name of me, the surgeon and the practice.

And so it stuck. And, and it’s also one of those things that can become kind of like a club. So, you know, you can become a happy camper. Anybody can become a happy camper. So, and so that, that just kind of stood out. And we kind of went with it and embraced it. And I think that that’s just a philosophy that we approach our life and our practice with, And I think, you know, the, the patients that we take care of that want us to take care of them, Embrace that.

And so, so we went with that. And then part of doing training in the southeast is I became exposed to you know, different things like bow ties and so moving from Texas to North Carolina, I was around a lot of folks that kind of had a southern gentleman vibe to them and I was kind of intrigued by it.

And when you’re you know, a resident, these short ties, they cost about half as much as a long time. And they stayed kind of clean cause I’m going to try this. And so I tried it on and got made fun of a little bit and I said, You know what, I’m just going to do it. And I, I, I rode with it through my residency.

And when I started practice I was one of the few people around wearing a bow tie. And so early in, in practice and when I do office hours I like to, you know, leave the impression with patients that it’s an important event that they’re there to see us for their. Surgical treatments and needs, and I want them to feel like someone is treating it like a special event.

And the bow tie sends that signal. It, it talks about preparedness, it talks about a level of elegance. If you think about going to a nice restaurant or a wedding, the bow tie is synonymous with something that I think I would like my practice to reflect, which is a, a level of elegance. And we feel like that’s a, a good message and a good branding tool for us.

And it’s authentic, just like camp is part of my name and the Happy Camper is, is part of it. The bow tie is part of our personal style. And then so I think when you blend all those two things together that’s when the staff were all women banded together and just made themselves the bow tie babes, and it was very organic.

They did it on their own. And they’ve kind of taken off with that and, and run with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And it’s been a hit. Well, you have a great, or you used to have this great photo on your website, I think it was even on the homepage. And all of you, you were in your suit, bow tie for heaven sake, and then all the women were in black.

Yeah, it so cool. And it was on the stairs and you were all spaced out. And I got so elegant and then, and then I didn’t see it, so I thought, why’d you take that down? That was really, I thought that was great differentiating for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, no. I don’t know that we’ve taken it down. I think it’s probably just moved around and it’s cycles.

So my wife’s behind me. I don’t know. Did we lose the tuxedo picture? Well, it was so eye catching. She’s, she’s doing an update.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. . Yeah, because I thought it was just so different than, than what you normally see, so. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Oh, I’m glad you liked it. We, I, I didn’t know. I didn’t know what people would think, but we had fun with it, which is what counted.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So when it comes to social media, would you say like, what are your marketing channels for attracting patients? Is social media the way to go or anything else working for you to get new patients? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, I, I think it’s, it’s a, it, you know, combination of factors social media was an early differentiator.

I think for me and it allowed people a little bit of access into the, the daily activities of, you know, what goes on in, in seeing patients, taking care of them. Some, you know better idea of a look behind the curtain of what surgery’s like so they, they see how patients respond, not just the surgical sites themselves and.

Maybe a binder or a garment but actually sometimes having a conversation with the patient, like as they wake up or so it added layers of understanding for patients. So they could see the preoperative, the surgical side and the postsurgical result where it used to be just like, I understand that that before and after looks better, but the whole process is maybe very intimidating.

So social media took down a lot of barriers I think for patients and I think being young in practice it gave them access to understand your ability without equating that to. Being too young or too old or experienced, you just see it in action. And it speaks for itself. Anyone can say whatever they want to say.

Anyone can have an idea about what experience they think they want or what they think they want their doctor to look like. But ultimately, once they see something that matches what they’re looking for it resonates. And so that for us stuck. And I think we stayed active in other places. Worked on RealSelf and answered questions and loaded photography and then built out a website with content.

And so, and there was no one specific magic bullet. And I’d say that as time has gone on, being consistent is most helpful. And so and then the other thing is There’s a mixture of things from my life on there. So social media is different than my website. The website is very focused on outcomes.

And then the, the ins and outs of why a patient might want procedures and then instructions and so on and so forth. And then the social media channel is reflection of everything. And so I, I think patients like to know something about you. I think it takes some separation away and it makes the whole idea about talking to a physician less intimidating.

And I don’t care who you are. Yeah, I don’t care if you’re a guy talking to a guy, man to man, or if you’re a lady talking to another lady to meet someone early on and then talk about a physical feature, Be your nose, your body, or something like that. There’s something about that, that’s not every day experience.

So social media can take that away and say, Well, here’s somebody that you know is like me. You know, they have kids they go on trips they look tired on the weekends sometimes. And you know, you can see us doing family photos. So just like anybody else, I have things that matter to me. I have things that, that I have to deal with.

And, and it, it, I think, makes that connection with patients more understandable. Where it used to be, you know, white coats, sterile doctor, patient, very, very. Harsh boundaries. I, you know, think you have to be careful about blurring lines. But authenticity I think is a word that comes up a lot with social media channels.

And so I think you don’t have to have a ton of followers or anything else like that. I think be yourself. And if you do that, And you’re consistently there. You’ll have a base of, of patients that’s comfortable with you. And I think that that can be great. A great resource. And then the website has probably been the most consistent thing.

You know, it’s the tried and true, but I, I will tell you that it’s taken us years to understand where patients come from exactly. But our volume of, of, of patient traffic and data still tracks highest through our website. And that’s our greatest volume of information on procedural information to educate patients, and then illustrative information on before and afters.

So they still spend time there and it still ends up being. The destination point from which they tell us they come to us. But RealSelf is important. Google reviews are important. Being in the community is important. Being on social media is important. And so I think there is an ecosystem component to that.

It’s a new layer of work that didn’t used to exist. And I think anyone would admit that there’s times when you need to. Give yourself a break even. My colleagues who are extremely active on social media you know, when we have separate conversations, talk about the need every once in a while to unplug and take a break here and there, and you’ll even see them announce it on their social media channel because they’re so active and so accessible that when they do take a break like that you know, if you don’t put people on notice, it creates this strange panic.

So, so it’s another variable to manage. But at the same time, I, I, I think it’s a new reality. So and I’m sure that you have to deal with social media as well. I mean, you know, I’m sure you’d impacted what you do on a daily basis, Hasn’t it?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, I use my dog. I, I saw your dog. He’s adorable. And you’ve got the kids and it just shows that you’re a well-rounded person.

You know, people want to see who are you, you know, And it really shows. So you’re doing a good blend of educating as a surgeon, but as a husband, a father a dog lover. Yeah. So you’re hitting lots of points, interest points that we consumer, cosmetic patients like to hear. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. Well, sure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So my last question would be, tell us something that we don’t know about you and doesn’t relate to you having a 50/50 Surgical vs. Non-Surgical practice.

Steven Camp, MD: Oh wow. I think a fair number of people probably wouldn’t expect Spanish to be my first language. Are you? Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. So my mom’s Columbia. And you know my last name’s camp because my dad’s got, you know, the most kind of British type background from South Carolina. So he’s from South Carolina, but my mom’s from South America, so it’s an interesting kind little background.

And it was fun kind of growing up with those Different kind of cultural perspectives. But that’s all I’ve ever known. And I, I think that surprises people because they expect, you know something different when they see the last name camp. But that’s true. It’s a very much part of who I am.

You know, I have a strong Latin heritage, but you know, also my dad’s side of the family has not, not a single Latin bone in their bodies that I can tell. And so you know, I got to learn a little bit of language from my mother, but unfortunately all my bad dancing comes from my dad. I saw you dancing.

Yeah. Oh, I’m sorry about that. . That the other thing I think is, is that you know, I’ve been a lifelong Cubs fan cause I was born in Chicago. Me too. And so Go Cubs.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I still have my Cubs hat and people out here, but it says C because my last, my name is Catherine, so I go with that, but it’s really Cubs.

Steven Camp, MD: There you go. Yeah. So, you know, I thought we’d never see them win a World Series and, you know, low and behold a few years ago they pulled that one out. So that was.

Catherine Maley, MBA: The Chicago fans are ridiculously optimistic, you know, and they’ll, they’ll hang in there forever until something good happens.

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. So I’ve got a book at home called, Wait Until Next Year.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That’s so funny. Ah, well, thank you so much for being with me on Beauty and the Biz, it’s been an absolute pleasure and everybody that’s wrap it up for us this time. So if you’ve got any feedback for Dr. Camp, you can certainly head over to his website, it’s www.CampPlasticSurgery.Com.

A big thanks to Dr. Camp for sharing his journey on going from recon to solo practice buildout.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD” Podcast.