Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk…
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and treating 95k patients.
I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called “Treating 95K Patients — with Bruce Katz, MD”.
What kind of marketing team, budget and service offerings do you need to see 95K patients?
This week’s video is an interview I did with Dr. Bruce Katz who is a board-certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic, and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens and worldwide.
He has more than 50 lasers and devices and is the Director of The JUVA Skin & Laser Center and the JUVA Foundation Research Center that has been performing clinical studies for more than 20 years and has participated in more than 70 studies.
We talked about why all cosmetic practices should care about offering non-surgical procedures and how to differentiate yourself in this uber crowded space.
P.S. If you want to discover how to set up your office and staff to win, check out The Cosmetic Practice Vault….
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk…
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk…
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we…
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and treating 95k patients. I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of “Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying”, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, I have a very special guest today because he’s not a plastic surgeon, but he is a dermatologist and has experience treating 95k patients. And it’s Dr. Bruce Katz. He’s a board- certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens, as well as worldwide. Now, Dr. Katz is a leading innovator of advanced laser technology cosmetic surgery.
Body contouring, research and dermatology. He has more than 50 lasers and devices and has been treating more than 95k patients for their aesthetic needs. That’s a lot. Dr. Katz is the director of the Juva Skin and Laser Center, and also the Juva Foundation Research Center that has been performing clinical studies for more than 20 years.
As a matter of fact, they have participated in over 70 studies. Dr. Katz, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Bruce Katz, MD: Thank you Catherine. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you just start us off by telling us describe your practice practices and the services you provide? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we’re a cosmetic dermatology practice and we do a lot of fillers, toxins, a lot of laser work, body contouring work.
I was one who introduced Smart Lipo here in this country about 20 years ago now. And you know, we also do a lot of clinical research on all kinds of different technologies, whether it’s lasers. We did actually the recent F D A trials for dify, the new toxin. We do filler studies as well. And also, you know, laser and body contouring studies too.
And then also we do big pharma type of studies on acne, eczema, psoriasis, and all kinds of you know, medical dermatology as well as cosmetic me, cosmetic dermatology and, and cosmetic surgery. And also, I I’m a clinical professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai here in New York, and I lecture nationally and internationally.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, do you ever sleep? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah, once in a while.
Catherine Maley, MBA: God. Okay, so, I, you know, I’m always curious to find out how can you manage the dermatology practices? I’ve done a lot of work with them because a lot of them want to take advantage of all of the quantity of people they have and turn them from medical to cosmetic, so, I’m very familiar with that.
But one of the challenges is it’s such a busy practice with so, many people in it. Are you focused on like, how do you focus on medical and cosmetic and then don’t you also do Mohs. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, I focus mostly on cosmetics. I have associates who do Mohs and also general dermatology. We do a lot of skin cancer work too.
Yeah, so, you know, my colleagues do the other type of more diverse procedures in medical dermatology and skin cancer work. And I focus mostly on cosmetic dermatology and cosmetic surgery, as well as laser surgery too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then the clinical studies, are those also done under the same roof as the cosmetic and the medical, or do you need to spread that out? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
I don’t know how much space it takes to do that, but…
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have three full-time people just doing our research at our center, and we have a large center in midtown Manhattan, about 5,000 square feet. Oh. So, we, we know, we also have a big area for our research studies too, which obviously you need, if you’re running 10 and 12 studies at a time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that new doxy, I think it’s called. Mm-hmm. How, how long does it last? Because we, people who love our Botox, the, our biggest complaint is, well, you know, could it last longer? What’s the, what’s the scoop on that? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, the Scoop, Catherine, is, it does last longer, usually six to eight months, and I saw that in the clinical trial.
So, I don’t think there’s any question about it. I mean, it could vary in some people, but I think on average, you know, at least six months, some people even up to nine months in fact.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. Well, keep, keep researching that. We need it to last longer than that too. All right. I just feel like I’m constantly getting my Botox done. I’d like to. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, now you can try something a little different. That’ll last for certainly, certainly a lot longer.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is it available now worldwide? I mean not, not worldwide, but like easily distributed to everybody or is it still out there in the general distribution. Specifically? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we were, we were one of the, we were part of the group that was, you know, introduced to it initially.
Mm-hmm. You know, I guess to, you know, just try it out. Make sure there are, you know, no issues. But there certainly weren’t, and now I think it’s available around the country.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, terrific. All right. Now let’s get back to, you run a pretty big boat there. You’ve got two locations, a lot, it sounds like three locations. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: A lot of people. actually, four now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh Lord. Okay, so, how many staff?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have about 45 people, you know, between the four offices now, so, it keeps us busy. But you know, we we’re really organized, so, everything runs really smoothly. And we have a great team of people. My administrative people as well as our clinical team are great, our research team as well, and that’s really important.
As I’m sure you know you know, you’re in a consulting business, you know, your staff is what really makes your practice and. You know, the front office people are the face of your practice, so, they’re really important as well. But you know, we have regular meetings. I think that’s, that’s imperative to communicate regularly.
And, and that’s why we have a very smooth operation, I think.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That’s amazing. And you’re absolutely right. I don’t understand why there aren’t more regular meetings. Just catching up with everybody and getting everyone on the same page. It just, it saves so, much time and hassle with miscommunication. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
And when you’re not communicating, the staff will make stories up. You know, they did. They’re, they’re trying to communicate without you, and that’s never a good idea. How did you find how. Didn’t you have any trouble, like post co covid, post covid trying to get the right people in place. Have you had any issues with that or what’s your secret to hiring the right people? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we had a great team, you know, even before Covid. Mm-hmm. But we did lose some people as a result. And it has been a little difficult getting new people to come in. But, you know, we try a variety of different ways to do it and, you know, often asking our current staff if they know people, friends or family as well.
And somehow, you know, we do get those people in. Mm-hmm. And fortunately, good people who manages everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There’s no way you’re doing that. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, no, I have a great, you know, front office manager and clinical manager. We also have, you know, great people in our, in our clinical staff as well to manage back office too.
So, it all works, you know, very well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, let me ask you to get the right people, right, but you, I mean, I would think you have different profit centers set up. Like you would have one for cosmetic, one for research, maybe one for Mohs. Is it like that? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, that’s true. We sell, sell products in our, in our practice as well.
That’s another area. And we have person who supervises that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I’m going to ask you about that, but where I’m getting to is, are you still, so, are your kind of in silos? Like are, are those teams working separately or are you trying to develop this big mission statement and vision where everyone’s under one roof all working together as a big team?
Or is it siloed? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit of both. In fact, I mean, we have one obviously great team that works together, but we have individuals that are responsible for certain areas. You know, one person is responsible, say for the products, and making sure that we keep the right inventory.
Another person is responsible for billing and, you know, making sure, you know, bills get paid. And also, you know, accounts receivable. So, we have these different. Buckets that, you know, people focus on and are responsible for. And then also in terms of research, we have a manager of our research, our research director, and he is responsible for making sure that the studies are done properly and that patients come in, subjects come in and come in regularly.
So, it, it’s, you know, pretty well-oiled machine I’d say.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. You had mentioned skincare and I noticed online you have your own skincare store. Mm-hmm. Give me your thoughts on that. Has it been a revenue stream? Has it been okay? Has it been a great idea? Like, where are you at with that? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, it’s certainly a, a very substantial revenue stream.
We use Shopify, which, which is a great technology to help us with that. And You know, it’s, we have a variety of different private label products and also other, you know, proprietary products that we promote as well. It depends on, you know, what we need, which, you know, what, what products we think are best in their class, and we go for that, whether it’s private label or proprietary.
You know, we always want to find the best products, the newest and the most advanced that will give our patients the best results.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that’s really interesting what you’re saying because most practices say, oh, I’m selling, I, I have a skincare line. And I say, well, how, how’s it going? And they say, well, the staff won’t sell it.
And you’re saying you’re not even necessarily marketing to your own patients. You’re, you went Shopify, you went to the world like are you on Amazon, kind of thing. Like can they find you on Amazon? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: No, we’re on Google actually. We’re not on Amazon. Google has also, you know, promotion of, of products.
You know, we don’t want to be, you know, I think Amazon is a great venue, but you know, patients can call. Our office or email us and we send them products. You know, we have clientele all over the world, so, you know, they can come to the office to pick up a, you know, a product when they run out.
Mm-hmm. So, we have a great team that just deals with taking care of product sales and making sure when people need more of those products, that we send it to them and, and they, they get it. They don’t have to worry about going to Amazon or elsewhere. So, it’s very easy for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Do you, do you think though, that most of the revenue is coming from your current patients who know you, or have you put enough into Google, I don’t know if you’re doing PPC or some kind of advertising, to get the public in general to buy it? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Do you know?
Bruce Katz, MD: I say the majority is our own patients. Gotcha. Okay. We do have some people who call us who, you know, may have heard about their products from friends or family. Mm-hmm. But I say the majority are really just from our patient population. We don’t really try to sell. To the public. Generally, as you know, that’s a very competitive space and the margins are extremely razor thin.
So, and I don’t think it’s really an area that we can compete in, to tell you the truth, because all the big brands, you know, have a lot more marketing Cloud than we do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That’s why honestly when I see doctors putting a whole bunch of money into their skincare website. I just say, you know what, let’s, let’s just, just, if you want to be practical about this, when I look at your revenues by procedure, it’s never been more than 2% of overall revenues.
You know, skincare is never more than 2%. And I say, let’s just put it in perspective though. If it’s 2%, then spend 2% of your time and your staff’s time. And your resources on that, but the rest, you know, go somewhere else where there, where there’s more money to be made. It’s so, competitive. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, I think you’re absolutely right, Catherine.
From what I’ve heard, I mean, I could be wrong, but even from what I’ve heard from Dr. Lines or quote Dr. Yeah. Lines that are carried in Sephora. Yeah. Or in Bloomingdales, or. Other, you know, retail places. Yeah, I hear that. They, they find it very hard. They have to pay for all their own marketing in, in those stores.
They have to have their own little sections that they have. They have to hire their own people. And I would think that, you know, the profits are extremely thin for all the effort that goes into it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly, unless you can somehow hook up with the pharma group, you know that you need a pharma budget, frankly, in today’s world.
Right. Get that to happen. Yes. So, regarding any mistakes you’ve made, like, because you have been around a really long time and you’ve done it all and you’ve worked with vendors, you’ve worked with pharma, you’ve worked with PR agencies, you’ve worked with a bunch of staff like, and all the research that goes into.
That’s a whole other world as well. Like what, what would be your advice to others who maybe are thinking about doing research but also doing their own private practice? Is it viable to try to do both when you’re like a solo practitioner? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, that’s a very, that’s a very important question that you raise and I think, I think you know, a lot of my success over the years, And you know, we are always looking to introduce the newest technologies to our patients and we get a lot of media attention for doing that.
But where does it come from? And it actually comes from the research we do. And a lot of people don’t understand that. But if you come out. Say with, you know, you, you’re doing research on a, on a new technology, take Taxify for example. So, you know, that was, you know, really a breakthrough technology compared to the other toxins available.
Cause it lasts a lot longer. You know, we did the clinical trials, the f a trials, we were one of the sites that did that. So, we are first to market as a result because we have the experience. People don’t come to us because they hear that. You know, we’ve treated 40 patients even before it was FDA approved in the clinical trial.
So, that gives us a lot of credibility, right, right away. And then the media. Calls us because they know we have experience and we can talk to them about how it actually works and how does it feel for patients? Does it feel any different? Does it act any differently than other toxins? So, by doing the research, and I, and I can repeat this for so, many other technologies that we’ve introduced over the years, Catherine, you know, Cul, for example, another breakthrough technology, the first to build muscle of any body contour in treatment.
Well, we did the F D A trials there. We’ve done many studies on cul, cul neo, and other technologies in that, in that sphere. Smart lipo. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I was the first to do that. I introduced it to this country and did the first FDA trials for it, and we got huge media attention. As a result, and that helps our practice.
But it all came from the research, and this has been true of other technologies we’ve used over the, that we’ve done research on over the years. And then, you know, we use also for marketing and PR.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I used to do a lot of pr well, decades ago because it was so, new and, you know, new and it was just so, new and, and nobody knew anything or much about it, the consumers didn’t.
And it was very easy to call. I could literally pick up a call, pick up the phone, call the station manager of my local radio or my ro local tv and then I’d say, okay, what do you think about this story? And they’d be like, Sounds good. Maybe next week, you know, call me back. And nowadays you, there’s nothing else to say.
So, the secret is because you have so, much PR on your website and you are definitely the innovator and the thought leader and your, I can see why the media would go to you because of the research. You didn’t just pay to play. You didn’t just get a PR company and say, okay. Give me, get me some pr and they’ll be like, well, what’s our topic?
Like, what, what can we, what does the all the PR people or the media channels care about is what’s new for their audience. Exactly. And the only thing that’s new is what you’ve been researching. So, you have the, you’re on the front line there. So, that’s, that’s the secret. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Good for you. Oh yeah. Well, that’s, and that’s given us a lot of currency.
Another example right now is M Face, that’s the new technology for facial lift and building muscle on the face as well. Another similar to M Scope, but for the face, we just did an interview. It’ll be coming out tomorrow on Hollywood Life. That’s you know, a big website. They get 30 million eyeballs every month.
Mm-hmm. And all, cause you know, I, one of the people at Hollywood Life tried it out at our office. And they had great results. So, they wrote a story about it. And that gives us a, also a lot of exposure for this new technology as well. And that only came out in the last few months. But that’s very important, very important to be first to market.
That really Right. Gives you a big advantage compared to your, your competitors. And again, it just comes from the research.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But the holy Grail for us women who are aging, especially women, men too, but you, you know, you can only have so, many facelifts and, or you don’t want a facelift and you just, you’re, you’re afraid or whatever.
If that really, honestly, does it really work? Like, are we talking. Noticeable results are so, subtle that you wouldn’t notice, like, oh yeah. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: No, you see, you see noticeable results. No question about it. Great thing about it. Also, it’s non-invasive. Mm-hmm. It’s a 20-minute treatment. You do four treatments, you know, once a week, and people love the results.
I mean, they, they can see it right away.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. And is the last thing, how long. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we think it’ll probably last at least a year. Oh, okay. As have the other mco treatments. And then, you know, you probably do maintenance once or twice a year. The 20 minutes each time is pretty easy. Right, because painful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Sometimes I have watched a lot of these where you have to have multiple treatments. Like remember sculpture, you had to have three treatments. The patient journey is tough because the patient journey was you have a sculpture treatment. Then your face is fairly puffed out, like you have some swelling and you look fantastic.
Then it goes away. Then you have to go back and get another one. Then it layers onto that and again, you have a beautiful. Affect treatment and, but then it goes away. Then the third one, you know, supposedly builds that up. The problem is, is half the patients won’t get through all three. You know, so, that’s one of the issues is the, I love the non-invasive, but there’s a cost to that, and that is time, you know, and repetition.
So, it’s just, I just find this so, fascinating. Like, what are you finding in the industry, like surgical versus nonsurgical? How much has that changed in, in the world, you know? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I think you know what really talks to that is the fact that a lot of plastic surgeons are now doing these treatments.
Right? Right. Because obviously they know people want try dose first. You know, we know surgery does. You know plastic surgeons do great work and their results are amazing, but a lot of people, you know, particularly women today who are working, you know, juggling, you know, family life and the workplace as well, find it really hard to do surgery when, you know, they may be just having early changes.
They may be getting a little bit of jowling, a little laxity of the neck, perhaps, you know, some, you know, looseness around the eyes. And they’re not ready for surgery. So, what do they do? You know, they want to have these treatments that are non-invasive, no downtime. 20 minutes to half an hour each. So, it’s very easy, you know, I mean, we’re in Midtown, so, our patients find it very, very easy to come to us.
We’re on 56th and Park and you know, they could just jump in at lunchtime, have these treatments and go right back to work rather than taking off two weeks after a facelift or, you know, other major plastic surgery procedure. And they, you know, not, are not necessarily ready for that. Mm-hmm. And even if they see a plastic surgeon, They’ll be told that as well, that, you know, that little bit of Jing or a little laxity of the neck doesn’t warrant a deep, plain facelift.
Mm-hmm. But you know, plastic surgeons now are offering these non-invasive treatments cause they realize instead of losing that patient, say, well, you’re not ready. You know, chow River, dci. You know, we can offer you something in the meantime like evoke, which is another type of radiofrequency technology to tighten the jowls or tighten the neck or another, you know, m face treatment to give you a lift to the face where you may be getting a little bit of a droop.
And they don’t lose the patient. They keep them in their practice until they’re ready for a facelift and then they see that plastic surgeon. So, you know, it’s not, you know, one or the other anymore. It’s really a combination of doing both. You offer people, you know, early on with the early changes, non-invasive, even though they have to come in several times for the treatment, they’re fine with doing that because they’re not losing any time from work or their family.
Mm-hmm. And I think that’s a reasonable approach.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And in, and in addition to that, after you’ve had a facelift, it never stops. The aging process never stops, and nobody wants to go through it again if they don’t have to. So, if these treatments, you can get that patient at the beginning when they’re just thinking about surgery, but they’re not ready yet.
The, they’re worth thousands of dollars to you while they’re thinking about it. Then they, even if they have the facelift, they’re worth many thousands afterwards. Trust me, I’m this patient. Well, that’ll keep coming back trying to keep that facelift in order, you know? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. It’s so, right. And also, I think by starting early on with these noninvasive, you can actually delay having a facelift because you’re stimulating collagen.
The changes aren’t, you know, as dramatic as they would’ve been had you not started with the noninvasive earlier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Just out of curiosity, I feel like I’m doing a consultation with you. It, it used to be, you know, I was around for therapy and the other one, Thermage, and just her, the pain threshold was ridiculous.
Has, have they done anything about that? Has the new technology become less painful? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. Well, those, those technologies are really old technologies, Catherine, but the new ones are not painful. They feel mostly like a warm massage I’ll take that, have much more advanced, you know, energy sources.
Mm-hmm. So, you don’t have the pain that you would from the whole therapy particularly. That was, you know, I tried it early on when it first came out and I felt the pain. They were treating my face. I felt the pain in my feet, how intense it was. But and also, You know, with homage it’s not as painful, but you need to have, you know, a technician working on that person for 40 minutes.
You know, with the pandemic in the last few years, a lot of people who came into our practice didn’t want someone working on them cause they’re concerned about getting sick. So, these certain, these particular companies like BTL in mode, they developed these hands-free technologies and sign was sculpture as well.
They develop these hands-free technologies, so, we just put the applicators on their face, their neck or their body, and walk out of the room and the patient can sit there, they can read emails, they can listen to music, read a book, and, and not, they’re not in pain, but they don’t have someone hovering over them for 40 minutes and worried about getting sick.
Yeah. So, that’s been a major. I think sequela of the pandemic, which has been very positive because it also is very beneficial for the practice. You don’t have to give up one of your staff to perform a procedure for a half an hour or 40 minutes when you can just put on the equipment, the applicators, walk out of the room and let them do something else or treat another patient and not have them only devoted to one patient for 40 minutes.
So, saves you staff time as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Aren’t you? It’s shocking how far the technology has come. Mm-hmm. Just so, many options now and then they, they’re trying to do this, do it yourself at home. What do you think about that? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, those, those technologies are so, dumbed down. Yeah. Because, you know, you know, the companies don’t want people to get burned or scarred.
Right. They really have very little benefit and, you know, from laser hair removal to skin rejuvenation with l e d light. Or the helmets to grow hair. You know, they’re all, they’re all so, you know, modest. In terms of benefits, I would say they may work a little bit. But it takes many, many sessions, you know, hours a week to do these treatments.
So, most people eventually give, give it up. It’s the same ideas, you know, you know women when, when hair coloring came out in the pharmacy, so, women could buy, and guys also, they can buy their own hair coloring. Hair coloring. Do it at home. Save money, not go into the salon. What happened? Well, you know, eventually they got stained all over their bathrooms and, you know, splatter everywhere and they went back to the salons and had it done in the salons.
So, you know, they, patients who come back after trying these things at home come back to our offices and realize that, you know, even though they have to spend some time in our office, they get much more beneficial effects and more efficacy as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it sounds like the theme is tightening, you know, like it’s, it’s tightening.
Would you, the research you’re doing right now, is there anything coming up the pike soon that you could tell us about or down the road? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: I can’t tell you about it, but there are, I could tell you that there are things definitely, you know, coming up the turnpike and they keep getting better and better, you know, more efficacy with minimal downtime.
Shorter treatment times as well. So, there, there’s new technologies coming along all in a pipeline.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that’s what we’re all looking for as a consumer patient. No downtime, no scarring, no pain. Oh yeah, that, that’s, that’s what we need because we’re also darn busy. I, I don’t have a week, I don’t have a week to take off and hide anymore, you know, if I can get up and running again in a day.
That’s the, that’s where the money is. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I can tell you, you know, right now about one new technology for tightening, please. That is just coming out and it’s called Micro Corine. It’s actually by a company called Cires, and it actually takes away tiny little pieces of skin without causing any scarring and with minimal downtime.
So, it’s actually removing tissue, you know, up till now. The way we did skin tightening was basically trying to stimulate collagen to tighten the skin. Mm-hmm. But we didn’t remove skin, you know, aside from surgery now we actually can take away tiny little discs of tissue, almost microscopic, without causing scarring.
And as these little wounds heal, the skin tightens. So, that’s a whole new technology. And you know, some say it can actually take away as much tissue on the face as a facelift does.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. Yeah. All right. When’s that going to happen? Because I need, I need that.
Bruce Katz, MD: We’ll be getting that probably in the next month.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. That soon?
Bruce Katz, MD: Test out. So, I’ll let you know and you want to come in, check it out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Please. I’ll be right over. Yeah. Even though I’m California, you’re in New York. That would be worth the trip over. All right, so. Lately I’ve been talking to a lot of surgeons who have been around a long time and they’re contemplating their exit strategy.
And I just want to, I, you may be or may not be, but I’m just hearing so, much about how do you exit from this industry profitably, you know, and comfortably. Mm-hmm. Now are you the mindset you’re going to stay until the bitter end? Are you going to. Do you have a plan for exiting? Are you going to sell to private equity? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Like what? Any thoughts on that that you want to share? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I can tell you, you know, my former partner, Dr. Alexander Fisher, was also a very famous dermatologist. Mm-hmm. And he worked till he was 91. So, I have a legacy to fulfill here, Catherine. So, check with me in about 15 or 20 years. I’ll let you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That’s why you’re exercising. Yeah, keep that. Keep stay on that electrical machine.
But do you have any, like, just regarding the business side, do you have any advice for the newbies coming up, or guys who’ve been in solo practice and they’re just trying to figure out how to grow or how to scale? Like let’s say they’re tired of medical and they want to get more into the cosmetic side.
Any advice for any of them on how to not just enter the market, but how to position yourself in the market to your benefit? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it’s really important to become expert at one procedure at a time. Mm-hmm. That’s the best way to start some. Mm-hmm. Some young doctors try to do a variety of different things and they don’t really do any particular thing really well, and that doesn’t really help grow their practice because patients may not be completely satisfied.
So, they don’t talk to other patients. I think, you know, that’s, that’s the first thing to be doing. You know, one, learn one thing at a time, get expert at it, and then do the marketing. You know, we do a lot of social media. We have seven different platforms that we, we market on social media. Our Instagram if people want to check it out, is @JuvaSkinAndLaserCenter.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You’re doing a good job on that. You’ve got a nice following going. So, are you putting that time in? I mean, you’re in there, but you can tell you’re not. I mean, you’re not spending a lot of time. No, no. Preparing it. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: I have a person who does great job with that. And she runs all those sites. And then she also works with our in-house marketing person, who also does a great job.
And, you know, we do a lot of videos, as you know. Yep. As your specialty, I’m sure. Yeah. Telling, you know, docs to do lots of videos or procedures they do, talking about new technologies or what’s new in there, in their particular practices. So, we do a lot of work there and also, Helping to develop a, a network a marketing.
And I think a media network is critical. So, once a young doctor starts out, they should try to develop relationships with people in the media. And, you know, I just fell into it many years ago because of the new technologies that, you know, I was coming out with and. 20 years ago when I camp with Smart Lipo, I had People Magazine approached me about the story cause they happened to be at a meeting.
I was lecturing out in London and I had a five-page spread on in People Magazine about Smart Lipo. And I had patients coming in from all over the world for the next two or three years to do, you know, liposuction. So, but you know, trying to curry. Relationships, develop relationships with the media is really important because like you mentioned earlier, you know, I think the media, people call it Feed the Beast.
They’re always trying to feed the beast, you know, talk about new stories, you know, scoop their competitors cause they’re competing as well as, as doctors are competing against other doctors, while media people are competing against other similar outlets To get to the newest stories out first. So, by creating a media network, which, you know, fortunately over the years we’ve developed, so, when we come out with something new, I can just call them or I say, come in and try it.
Say how you like it. And then they decide if they want to do a story about it. I don’t pressure them, I want them to, you know, give an honest appraisal and not say, this works when it really doesn’t. And I don’t want to ever present a technology that doesn’t work to a media person. Cause you know, They’re not going to do a, a good story.
And if they do a good story about it and it’s really isn’t effective, patients are going to come in and be unhappy. So, you want to be honest with the media. Don’t ever try to, you know, put something over them about a technology that you’re just trying to promote, even though you know it doesn’t do very much.
Mm-hmm. Because they’ll figure it out and, and you’ll end up getting negative feedback as a result.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How important is the Mass media pr. I’m from before the, the good, the goods, like the TV and the magazines and the newsprint versus the new world today of digital. Have you changed your approach on PR and media now that everything seems to have gone online? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, yeah. You have to make, make a big change. I mean, you know, years ago, I’d say probably even five or six years ago, still the most effective media was tv. And, you know, we did a lot of tv. I was on the view all the time. Mm. You know, the Today Show, good Morning America, CNN, and that gave us huge exposure, right?
People coming from over the country, internationally. But in the last five or six years, that’s pretty much dried up. I mean, TV still works if you know, if you’re lucky to get that. But it’s been harder and harder because they’re not doing. That many cosmetic stories anymore, and they’re leaving it more to their.
They’re digital out outlets. So, some, you know, whereas the View may have done a lot of cosmetic things years ago, and we would actually do live procedures on the view, we would treat sunspots with a laser or do a laser resurfacing on someone live on, on the show. Mm-hmm. But today, you know, they may do a, a video of it on their, on their website or on their, you know, Instagram.
But they don’t do it on their, on the actual program anymore. So, it’s really digital, you know, and social media. I mean, that’s really where it is, where it’s at today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: In terms of marketing, how much of your own time is spent on social, creating that content? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: I don’t really create any of it. Good. I just have our, our, our people do it and they do a great job.
You know, they ask me to do videos and I’ll do videos. I’m always happy to, you know, to talk about the latest things. And I encourage them to do stories about, you know, what’s new in our practice, what, what we’re doing, you know, that’s interesting. Or we’re even talking about, you know, how to, I’m going to do a video tomorrow on how to make the change in skincare from winter to s to, you know, warmer weather.
Of course, that’s, you know, something that a lot of people contending with right now as the weather gets warmer. So, it’s not always about just new things that we’re doing, but also things that are important to our patients in terms of their own lifestyles. There’s,
Catherine Maley, MBA: In today’s world, I almost think if you’re going to play the game, especially in the jungle you are in in New York you almost have to have a marketing team.
You have to have somebody who understands digital, somebody who understands social you know, someone’s got your website covered and that content because your website you have a killer website with tons of content on it. And that doesn’t happen by accident. Somebody’s got to do all of that, you know? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, wouldn’t you say you have more a bigger marketing team now than you ever did before? Because it’s so, mandatory to be everywhere.
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, certainly, you know, in terms of, you know, adding digital and social media. Yes. Mm-hmm. But we’ve always had, you know, someone doing our marketing. I mean, that’s, it’s like any other business in a competitive field, particularly in a market like New York.
Everyone has to do that. Yeah. But you know, it’s, I think it’s also important to mention that you can’t just. You know, hire someone to do it or let them run with it. The doctor has to also be, you know, in communication, you know, we meet once a week, sometimes even more frequently. I meet with my, not only my research team, but also with our marketing team and making sure that, you know, they’re, we’re all on the same page.
They give us a review of what they’re working on, and before anything goes out of my office, I review it. So, nothing goes out to the media. Nothing goes out in social media or e-blasts without me or one of my associates who, you know, are providers in a practice reviewing things because sometimes marketing people may not get it right, and you don’t want something to come out that’s inaccurate or misinformation or, you know, not true.
So, you know, it’s always a point. You can’t just say, run with it and not be involved. The doctors have to be involved too. That’s very important.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then you have the public coming at you when you do pr and you have a big name out there and you throw a big net out. Now you have to deal with the response to that.
And have you found that the patients are a lot different in today’s world? A lot flakier like I’ve noticed like for example, plastic surgery, they can have 1100 leads. I just saw this the other day, 1100 leads and. All, you know, the journey from the time they call to the time they come in, to the time they have their console, to this time they say yes was 12.
So, they went from really 1100 to 12 paying procedures. And all I can say is that’s a lot of work. Talk about a needle in a haystack to find the, the 12 that wanted to give you money. Do you, are you finding that yourself that there’s a lot more quantity but not as much substance? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it’s probably truer in plastic surgery because you’re talking about much bigger ticket items.
Yeah. Whereas here, you know, in, in dermatology, you know, someone comes in to have a Botox treatment. First of all, we tell them, you know, if you don’t like it, it doesn’t last anyway. So, you don’t have to worry about committing to a procedure that you have live with for forever. Right. And it’s, you know, a few hundred dollars.
So, it’s not a terribly expensive procedure that they have to really. Think about for months at a time. Whereas on a facelift or a breast dog or lipo, you know, people will, will spend more time considering it. I find that to be the case in my liposuction patients. Mm-hmm. You know, they’ll come in, we’ll do an evaluation, a consultation, examination, and then they may take, you know, a few weeks to decide.
Mm-hmm. But then again, you know, We could also tell when people are just shopping, right? And, you know, we know that that’s not going to be a, you know, we’re not going to close that deal. So, I think you have to just, you know, put your emphasis on ones that are realistic and more likely to, to close. And then also make sure that your staff follow follows up.
You know, I have, I, I know, you know, not just plastic surgeons, but dermatologists who see patients for cosmetic procedures and never follow up. With them if they don’t make the appointment right away or if they don’t make it, you know, don’t call back. So, it’s important to have a person usually, you know, it’s ours.
Or cosmetic care or surgical coordinator who does the follow up and tracks it on a sales spreadsheet. And now does certain, you know, touch points over, you know, two or three times after that visit, after two or three, you know, contacts. If they’re not interested, you just. Say dead end, but, but it’s important to do the follow up because sometimes people may not have un understood something correctly in the consultation, or they weren’t clear about, you know, what, what, what’s really involved in terms of follow up and, and recovery.
So, by having someone follow up that might actually change the, the nature of their, of their opinion, and then they actually close on the deal. And they make the appointment and have the surgery. So, I think follow up is, is as important as you know, the actual consultation for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, what about the competition in your world?
It’s been. Fairly commoditized. I mean, the patients think that they can get Botox anywhere or they can get laser treatment anywhere. Do you deal with that? Or you’re so, you know, you’re so, branded that you don’t have that issue. Like people go to, you just, they’re going to pay what they, they pay whatever you want because they, because it’s you.
Do you have that issue where you’re losing patience to the competition, you know? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Not really. I mean, I think in New York they, you know, there obviously are, you know, the non-doctors who are doing these procedures in spas. But you know, I think it’s so, busy overall and I think, you know, we also, you know, our, we, we don’t have.
A real cutthroat competition with be between dermatologists and plastic surgeons, or, you know, between dermatologists and dermatologists. We all get along really well. We, we talk to each other. You know, you’ve been in our meetings where it’s multidisciplinary and our plastic surgeons, facial plastics, oculoplastics, and dermatologists, we’re all buddies.
We lecture together we do research together. I re do a lot of research on cosmetic procedures and laser procedures with plastic surgeons. Very well-known ones as well, and we all get along really well, so, and we refer to each other. So, I just had a re referral from a plastic surgeon today because someone had a bad procedure and asked me to evaluate them.
And vice versa. And I’ll refer, you know, to plastic surgeons for conditions I may not want to treat or I don’t feel, you know, we have the right treatment, they need surgery. So, I know it’s different, other parts of the country where, you know, there are turf battles like that. So, but you know, I think, you know, for the most part patients come to us and they have treatments that are appropriate.
And we don’t really lose them to non-physicians.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Good for you. And lastly, I wanted to ask you about your podcast. Are you still doing that? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: We do it, you know, periodically. I just have been so, busy lately. I just haven’t had a time with, you know, doing the videos and social media and tracking those things and lecturing.
I was just in Hawaii, lecturing in Miami, going to Phoenix next week. Mm. So, it’s just it’s like you mentioned earlier, it’s hard keeping track of everything. But you know, It’s all fun. We still have a great time. What we’re doing, it’s, I don’t consider it work. I, I’m always looking forward to getting to the office every day and we’re really blessed to be in this industry where we have so, many new things happening and never becomes routine.
You know, there are new things happening, whether it’s in plastic surgery, dermatology, lasers, fillers, toxins. It never gets boring and that’s really an amazing position to be in. So, we are very fortunate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But the nuance there is it doesn’t get boring because you stay in the game. You are not just sitting in your office, you are everywhere.
You know, you’re still playing games. Yeah. Everywhere, everything and learning all the new technologies. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: And all at once.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But but I mean, you’re, you’re, that’s how you keep it interesting. You know, you’re, you’re really learning what is going to happen in the world. Like how do you see this playing out as an aesthetic patient? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Like, do you see it changing dramatically where we’re not going to do surgery half as much as we used to, or how do you see this? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know with all due respect to my plastic surgery colleagues, we all know that that’s coming. You know, that it’s going to be less and less invasive over the next few years.
And to the point where, you know, I don’t think. People with extreme, you know, loose necks or jowls down to here you know, boobs down to here also are not going to need surgery. They’re going to still need surgery. But for people who don’t have as severe changes and because people are starting a lot younger to have these non-invasive preventive treatments, even we see kids.
In their twenties are getting a little tiny wrinkle. Rico, they’re come in for Botox. We call it rejuvenation. Yeah. Which is actually, you know, some people say, well, that’s a, a little bit ridiculous. But it really isn’t because we know muscle movements continue over time. So, those lines are going to get deeper and deeper.
And eventually I’ve had patients come in and say they want to have Botox when they have ingrained, etched in. Lines in a frown area or horizontal forehead lines and you do Botox and it doesn’t do anything because they’re etched in. And there’s no way, even by relaxing a muscle that, that, you know, that wrinkles going to go away, or those wrinkles are going to go away.
So, they need to have laser surgery or, or regular surgery. So, by coming in earlier and earlier, they’re going to need less and less invasive treatments later on. So, there’ll be a few patients who need. Facelifts and brow lifts breast work, you know, that may continue to be the same case, but also even body contouring.
Mm-hmm. We see it already, you know, there’s less numbers of liposuction cases, and we see that in my own practice because we’re doing noninvasive fat reduction, noninvasive skin tightening muscle toing, non-invasive muscle toing, cellulite treatments, so, there’s less need for the invasive procedures.
So, I think that’s going to continue and it’s going to get even more advanced and more effective with less and less downtime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I mean, it’s so, good for the consumer. Not so, good for the plastic surgeons probably down the road, but, mm-hmm. I’ve also heard a liposuction that’s going to be done by robot, you know, robotic lipo.
It’s like, what? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s possible. Yeah. I may don’t even need liposuction at all if we can take away fat. Well, that’s a good point. One area which we’re getting to now. With Nia, we can take 30% of the fat layer away in four treatments, which is more than any other technology out there.
Only cause they, they combined with, you know, they two energy sources. So, it’s getting there every day. So, it’s more, more exciting and a lot more fun. But the plastic surgeons are never going to starve, you know? Yeah. They’re going to be taken, you know, up with all these. Noninvasive procedures too. So, whereas their surgery may reduce in number, in number of procedures, they’re going to be offering these noninvasive treatments to offset the lack of surgery if they’re smart.
Right. Which I think they are. And they’re doing that already. So, I know that is the case
Catherine Maley, MBA: for sure. So, we’re going to wrap it up. Why don’t you tell us something we don’t know about you.
Bruce Katz, MD: Something you don’t know about me? Well, you know, I have I just had two twin grandsons. Oh. Excited about just a year ago.
They’re the loves of my life right now. Are they identical? Two little boys. Twin boys, fraternal twins. So, that’s something people don’t know, but you know, that’s really exciting, and you know no one will be able to steal away my social media director. You know, why?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Why?
Bruce Katz, MD: Because she’s my wife and she does a great job with our social media.
She’s a graphic designer and she does all the social media. So, that’s something that people may not know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I say this all the time, marry “smart”. If you, if you’re going to be in business, Mary Smart, you look at that, push your wife to work and she stays in the practice. And who better represents you than your wife? How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
She knows you definitely, she knows you what you like, what you don’t like. That’s such a great idea. Anytime you can get your wife to, to run the show. In the practice.
Bruce Katz, MD: Absolutely. And she goes to all the meetings. Also, Catherine and Yeah. Does some videos and all our, you know, colleagues at the meetings know her.
All the companies know her because they all follow her on our social media. We have the CEOs of major cosmetic companies, filler companies that follow her on social media because that’s how impactful it is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. You have something to talk about after 40 years of being married or whatever. How did this impact your career in treating 95k patients?
Bruce Katz, MD: Exactly. Right. Exactly right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know your website is www.juvaskin.com. J u v a. And if somebody wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do that?
Bruce Katz, MD: So, I’ll give you, first of all, our Instagram handle is @juvaskinandlasercenter, Juva Skin and Laser Center, and my phone number is (212) 688-5882
Welcome to call anytime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Catherine Maley, MD: Everybody that’s going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on treating 95k patients.
If you’ve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Katz, you can reach out to his website at, www.JuvaSkin.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Katz for sharing his experience on treating 95k patients.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
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-End transcript for “Treating 95K Patients — with Bruce Katz, MD”.
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